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Talk:Zionism as settler colonialism

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WP:UNDUE/Cohen op-ed

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In "Background" there are quotes by Roger Cohen and Yuval Shany which come from an NYT op-ed. The op-ed should probably be replaced with some direct quotes from Shany, and we should either establish notability of Cohen's op-ed or find something that replace that too (he quotes multiple scholars in the article, so it should be easy enough to consult them directly). Anyone have any strong opinions on which sources to use here? Lewisguile (talk) 12:58, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Credibility of sources

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Some of the people quoted in the later sections of this article do not appear to have any specific expertise relating to the question of whether Zionism is settler-colonial. For example, Roger Cohen is a journalist, not a scholar, and he's quoted expressing a clear personal opinion. ElasticSnake (talk) 07:07, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do agree there. I left Cohen when I edited that section but I do think his inclusion is probably WP:UNDUE. Lewisguile (talk) 07:54, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've corrected the attribution of the "category error" remark from Roger Cohen to international law professor Yuval Shany. Roger Cohen was the author of the NYT article that quoted Shany, not the source of the remark. (This is no longer important, but given the extensive qualifications of Roger Cohen listed in his Wikipedia article, I think he would have been an acceptable source, given appropriate attribution (viz. WP:RSEDITORIAL). That having been said, a scholarly source for the "category error" claim might have been preferable.) Dotyoyo (talk) 00:20, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well spotted! Lewisguile (talk) 07:59, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request 19 May 2025

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Description of suggested change: The graphic besides the lead paragraph can easily be misinterpreted as being in wikivoice due to its description, despite containing obviously non-neutral material, such as purporting the existence of Israeli settler colonialism and of a coherent "Jewish Establishment". Both of these are controversial claims. The description should be changed to clarify that the image is not meant to present fact, but to present Neve Gordon's opinion.

Diff:

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Population shift from 1947 to 1951 in Israel–Palestine, plotted with the % of land controlled by what [[Neve Gordon]] calls the "Jewish establishment"
+
A graphic by [[Neve Gordon]] calling the expansion of Israel between 1947 and 1951 settler colonialism

Dieknon (talk) 15:26, 19 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with your proposed change because the original describes the graph more accurately - it plots two things. A graph is not an opinion. Yes he is using the graph to support his opinion but the graph itself cannot "call the expansion of Israel settler colonialism" - that is an interpretation of the graph.
Consider this alternate proposal that moves who made the graph to the start which should make it less wikivoice:
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Population shift from 1947 to 1951 in Israel–Palestine, plotted with the % of land controlled by what [[Neve Gordon]] calls the "Jewish establishment"
+
A graph by [[Neve Gordon]] showing the population shift from 1947 to 1951 in Israel–Palestine, plotted with the % of land controlled by what he calls the "Jewish establishment".
There is problems with dual axis charts for representing data in general, maybe a more suitable graph could be sourced. D1551D3N7 (talk) 15:21, 2 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]
 Done according to D1551D3N7. Not only is the OP's proposed caption hard to understand, it also misses the point of captions of graphs, which is to describe what kind of relation of X to Y we present. The second option is much better. If you find new graphs, go ahead and add them. Szmenderowiecki (talk) 14:49, 20 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request 30 June 2025

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Description of suggested change:

Diff:

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ORIGINAL_TEXT
+
CHANGED_TEXT

45.141.67.125 (talk) 11:44, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In "Supporters of the theory", I suggest to add the Spanish historian Jorge Ramos Tolosa, that has written numerous scientific articles and books from the perspective that Zionism is a type of settler colonialism. This is one of his most important papers in one of the most prestigious Spanish academic journals on contemporary history, Ayer, "Why is Palestine-Israel a question of settler colonialism?": https://www.revistasmarcialpons.es/revistaayer/article/view/716/770

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Day Creature (talk) 16:10, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 July 2025

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The entire article is full of misinformation and bias. The title "Zionism as settler colonialism" is a misuse of the actual definition of settler colonialism. The definition of settler colonialism is a type of colonialism in which the indigenous peoples of a colonized region are displaced by settlers who permanently form a society there. Zionists are in fact indigenous Israelite jews in addition to Ashkenazi jews and several other groups. Jews have remained in their ancestral home since before biblical day. Indigenous jews were living in the territory when Israel was reinstated to acknowledge their homeland. Jews/Zionists are the indigenous people of the land, and have been for thousands of year despite the many colonizations of their homeland. This article misuses the definition because in reality Palestinians are settler colonialists who stole indigenous Jewish land after the Ottoman Empire. They are not indigenous to the Levant but rather Arabia or the Arabian Peninsula. This entire page needs to be reformatted to accurately reflect history and terminology. The Palestinians are the exact definition of settler colonialism and are misusing the terminology against Jews and Zionists.

Citation BESA Center Perspectives Paper No. 577, September 3, 2017

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: The concept of “settler colonialism” has been applied with almost unique vehemence against Israel. But the fact that Jews are the indigenous population of the Southern Levant can be proved with ease. In contrast, historical and genealogical evidence shows Palestinians descend primarily from three primary groups: Muslim invaders, Arab immigrants, and local converts to Islam. The Muslim conquest of Byzantine Palestine in the 7th century CE is a textbook example of settler-colonialism, as is subsequent immigration, particularly during the 19th and 20th centuries under the Ottoman and British Empires. The application of the concept to Jews and Zionism by Palestinians is both ironic and unhelpful. Israelitejew (talk) 23:30, 10 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Dahawk04 (talk) 23:40, 10 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I would expect much of this article to be completely changed or removed due to the basic misuse of the definitions of settler colonialism and Zionism. Israelitejew (talk) 23:47, 10 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:ARBECR you are restricted to properly formulated edit requests, which you have not made. I would have deleted all of your text if it hadn't been replied to already. Zerotalk 04:48, 11 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
New to Wikipedia and how this all works. Since you can't formally flag or complain about false information or biased information, the web told me to do it in talk space. If that was incorrect, my apologies. Israelitejew (talk) 20:11, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You need to have 30 days tenure and 500 edits before you are allowed to do anything except making properly formulated edit requests. Zerotalk 23:23, 13 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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