Wikiversity talk:Colloquium

This page should only be used for discussion about the Colloquium.

Colloquium | talk | Archive 1 (2006-2007) | Archive 2 (2009-2010)

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Do we want the GLAM newsletter here?

If I wanted to read that newsletter, I could subscribe. As it is, I get notifications of every issue, and I don't see that this is commonly a matter for discussion here, which is what the Colloquium is for. We were getting the copy delivered here because m:Global_message_delivery/Targets/GLAM listed Wikiversity:Colloquium [at] en.wikiversity.org. Jtneill subscribed us, in addition to subscribing himself, 9 September 2013. Seeing no discussion of this here, I'm removing the subscription on meta, but I'll change it back if we have anything like consensus here to do so, or, of course, anyone can do that. I was just going to discuss it, but now that I see that it was unilaterally added -- and it's unusual for site-wide discussion pages to be subscribed -- I'm just removing, and I'll ping Jtneill about this. Obviously, any user who reads the newsletter and who thinks a topic should be brought to the Colloquium may do so. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 17:02, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

The same about "This month in education." If a Wikiversity user thinks a topic in that newsletter should be discussed, the user can bring the topic here. I'm removing the newsletters from the page. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 12:11, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

The Colloquium is for 'questions, comments or suggestions about Wikiversity'. 'This month in GLAM' and 'This month in education' do not meet that requirement. There's also a content problem with 'This month in education' that prevented users from effectively adding Colloquium content after the latest edition was inserted. I am opposed reinstating the subscriptions. -- Dave Braunschweig (discuss • contribs) 17:32, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

If we wanted the newsletter, a formatting error is something unusual that could be fixed. But it fills up the page and watchlists with content that isn't particularly helpful, and causes email notifications. Any user may subscribe (The GLAM subscription page is above, and there is m:Global message delivery/Targets/This Month in Education. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 18:24, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

• GLAM may easily be read at m:GLAM/Newsletter and This Month at outreach:Education/Newsletter. From there, full sorted archives are available. I propose to remove the newsletters as well from the Colloquium archives, (they started in May 2013) except where someone has responded, if there has been any such. It's all duplicated content. By the way, the Colloquium is no longer being archived by bot, it's done manually. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 18:56, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I support the proposal of GLAM news the our Colloquium. --~~Golden_burg111 19:39, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

If the community so desires it, I do not object to removing English Wikiversity from the subscription list at Meta. I do however object to removing current GLAM newspapers from the Colloquium's frontpage. They had interesting links to read from within English Wikiversity's Colloquium, and removing them damages the timeline of events in our archives, including when such newspapers were regularly posted. I have already fixed the issue with the "content" as Dave describes above, and I could easily archive it myself if we have no bot to do it. However, the GLAM newspapers are important for keeping the timeline smooth, so readers could look back and see what happened to them and when we stopped receiving them. Leaving them on the current Colloquium page does no harm, and allows for convenience readers to pick whichever issue they currently want to read immediately from Wikiversity's main discussion page. Removing them, without at least placing a proper public notice, is inconveniencing our readers as they wonder where the newspapers go; they are not as aware of other wikis such as Meta or Outreach and so would not be able to find them as easily. TeleComNasSprVen (discuss • contribs) 20:45, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Addendum: issues with watchlist and email notifications are easily solved by unchecking specific Special:Preferences settings and/or removing said notifications directly from the inbox. These are issues mainly for longtime veterans of watchlist users, while neglecting those issues for newbies' and others' perspectives. TeleComNasSprVen (discuss • contribs) 20:47, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I know of no way to watch the Colloquium, which is for communication among Wikiversity users, and not be notified of the newsletter postings. Watchlists are crucial for wiki maintenance, I'm not going to explain that in detail here, but what fills them up can be a problem. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 01:03, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Strawman. Proper management of one's own watchlists leads to a far more beneficial outcome than inconveniencing other users from a possible (learning) resource and creating more work for them, for the sake of a few annoying notifications. TeleComNasSprVen (discuss • contribs) 02:47, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Why are issues with watchlist and email notifications even important? IMO, that is a strawman argument. There has been lots of things passing through any of the major Wikiversity noticeboards, including the Colloquium, that I would not have the time nor care to pay attention and respond to, and I have opted out of notification from those appropriately. Why GLAM newspapers ought to be targeted for this issue is beyond me, since many other things create unnecessary notifications as well. TeleComNasSprVen (discuss • contribs) 20:52, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

We see four uses of the Colloquium:

1. Users, including new ones, ask questions of the community.
2. Users raise issues of community significance. The colloquium is our only general noticeboard.
3. The global community requests community feedback from us using the Colloquium. If, for example, stewards ask about inactive bureaucrats, following the two-year rule, they will do so on the Colloquium. There is no other place.
4. Newsletters where someone subscribed us.

As a suggested guideline, I'm deprecating the fourth usage, which stands out from the others. It's very new, and was never discussed. It is not a "Wikiversity community communication," unlike all the rest. If we want to have a community discussion of each newsletter issue, we could easily set that up, but we would not use this page. Some of us are subscribers, and if something is of particular community significance, any user may bring it here.

Users seriously maintaining the Wikiversity collaboration will watch the Colloquium. Occasional participants need not and will not. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 22:59, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

The removal was done out of process and without regard to current community consensus. As such, the newspapers ought to be restored.

The newspapers can be regarded as general announcements from the global/GLAM community. If the newspaper issue turns out to be significant to community interests, users may choose to read it, respond to it or even participate in the wider GLAM community. Why deny them the chance to do all of these things? To remove a few bytes from the page? Forgive me, but all I see is the pros outweighing the cons when it comes to leaving the newspapers in place or removing them. TeleComNasSprVen (discuss • contribs) 23:53, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure but I believe the reason both newsletters are being delivered here is that I made a contribution to each in essence advertising the course principles of radiation astronomy and the independent original research project on early telescopes. I did not subscribe to either but was checking their home pages for publication. After publication, both newsletters began appearing here. While I will probably contribute again to both, I have not done so as yet. I also enjoy reading them on the colloquium and occasionally check out some of their articles. I also like the archiving them in their own file for easy reference idea. My likely next contribution may be in May 2014. Sorry if somehow this created a problem. Both of these newsletters may default a subscription once a contribution is made to either. But, this is only a guess. Hope this helps. --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 23:17, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

No, Marshall, that's not what happened. I described it starting this topic, Jtneill added the subscriptions. Anyone can. I notified Jtneill when I removed the first subscription, I haven't notified him about the second. You can receive the newsletters, Marshall, if you want, it's easy, I described how, above. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 00:53, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It turns out this particular resource is useful to at least one person (besides me). That is reason enough for keeping it on the Colloquium. There are no benefits to be had from removing it, and lots of drawbacks. Leaving it in place only expands the Colloquium by a few bytes, but allows readers the chance to participate in a new (learning) resource (the GLAM community) that were never made available to them before. TeleComNasSprVen (discuss • contribs) 23:53, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Regardless, that counts Jtneill, Marshallsumter and I finding this resource quite useful, as well as to other potential Wikiversity users and readers. Only a select few, the vocal minority, has elected to bypass consensus to serve their own minor interests (less watchlist notifications, something that could be fixed rather easily). TeleComNasSprVen (discuss • contribs) 02:47, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Possible compromise: Why not add the links m:GLAM/Newsletter and outreach:Education/Newsletter to the top of the page, instead of subscribing? James500 (discuss • contribs) 02:10, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

I might just consider the subscriptions "archived" and place them in the Wikiversity archives accordingly. That might be best to everyone's interests here. TeleComNasSprVen (discuss • contribs) 02:47, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Or you could place them in the pages I just suggested. I'm going to take this as a comment that seeks the newsletters being hosted on Wikiversity, so I'll do it. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 03:02, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

TeleCom did copy those newsletters to the Colloquium archives. I blanked the two new archive pages he created to do that (they don't need to be deleted, we will use both of them very soon). All those newsletters are copied to the newsletter pages, for this year, and it's possible we could move them all to the newsletter pages, going back to the beginning of those subscriptions last year. There is no need to archive non-discussions from the Colloquium. Anyone who wants to see an old newsletter, it can be found much more quickly on the official archives, listed on Wikiversity:Newsletters. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 03:49, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Why just those links? Why not links to all the published newsletters?

Answer: because none of this is the business of the Colloquium.

There is another solution. It seems that one or two or maybe more want to be able to read the newsletters here on Wikiversity. So we can create a page here and subscribe that page to the newsletter. It's a community service page, so it belongs in Wikiversity space. I would create Wikiversity:Newsletters linking to Wikiversity:Newsletters/GLAM and Wikiversity:Newsletters/This Month in Education and a subpage for any other WMF newsletter that any user wants to subscribe us to. Then, anyone who wants notification of a new issue may simply put the newsletter page on their watchlist. Just as easy as -- or easier than -- reading it here, with no impact on our community discussions unless someone wants to bring some issue or news here. Frankly, I'd myself prefer this solution to receiving the newsletters on my own Talk page, as some do. Someone who wants the newsletters but not the Colloquium can manage that, as well.

If one user wants this, I'll do it, and set up the subscriptions. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 02:43, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Y Done See above. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 03:02, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

And the subscriptions have been created. Guess what? Since I was looking at the subscription pages, I checked. There is no wiki that has their main community discussion page subscribed. Wikipedia, for GLAM, has a Wikipedia space page, similarly to what I set up. --Abd (discuss • contribs) 03:17, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

The newsletter posts for this year have now been transferred to those newsletter pages. Unless I find newsletter posts that someone responded to, I don't know that we even need archives of them, they are all archived on the source pages (and the archives are linked on Wikiversity:Newsletters). --Abd (discuss • contribs) 03:49, 26 March 2014

Beautiful idea! I've already been reading recent GLAM newsletters I missed. Unfortunately, no early telescopes, but that's the way it goes for now. --Marshallsumter (discuss • contribs) 23:05, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

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• Archive 1
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• Cite namespace
• Length of a course
• What should we do about JWSchmidt?
• archives/May 2008