Posted by Merchant Seaman at 4/12/09 2:21 p.m.

one word,
Powell's

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 2:25 p.m.

It's not that the books are no longer listed. If you search for a book by title or author, you will still be able to find it.

Rather, it's that those of us with books that have been deranked no longer have our books in the bestselling book ranks, where they appeared before (and would still appear, as that is based on our sales) nor listing under the subject headings in lists for our subjects/genres.

So, unless someone is coming unto Amazon and looking for our book by title or author, they are unlikely to find it. That's a huge issue for authors -- especially those of us who are marginal in some way to begin with -- as often consumers browse those lists to find our books.

Posted by Andrea James at 4/12/09 2:31 p.m.

Thank you to the previous poster for your explanation. This is an important point because many people shop by browsing top-seller lists.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 2:39 p.m.

I'm the author of the memoir, ALL I COULD BARE: MY LIFE IN THE STRIP CLUBS OF GAY D.C, and Amazon de-ranked my book back in February: www.craigspoplife.blogspot.com/2009/04/is-amazon-homophobic.html

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 2:41 p.m.

thanks for the link, also, part of the reason this is being seen as an anti-LGBT move is that the policy is being applied so inconsistently. Why derank The Filly and Heather Has Two Mommies and leave Playboy the Complete Centerfolds and Tropic of Cancer in the lists if you aren't targeting that community.
-JF Quackenbush

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 2:42 p.m.

You can only find the de-ranked books if you both search by title AND choose the search category for books. If you do a generic title search from the Amazon front page without specifying that it's a book search, you will not find the de-rank books even with an exact title.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 2:59 p.m.

unacceptable discrimination. put them back in, or delist all fiction and nonfiction that touch in any way on heterosexual relationships and/or heterosexual sex.

no more books for me from amazon, at least until the policy is reversed.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 2:59 p.m.

Also, if you type in homosexuality as a search term for books on Amazon the first book listed in the results is "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality." Outrageous.

Posted by reback at 4/12/09 3:05 p.m.

Why Amazon, you surprise and disappoint. Several months ago I asked you to remove books promoting the cruel (non)sport of dog fighting and you came back with some convoluted justification of why it was alright and censorship and blah blah blah.

and now this? I will protest on your site where you'll know my name and be able to look up the thousands of dollars I'll no longer be spending there.

Posted by klake at 4/12/09 3:28 p.m.

Why do gays post as an unregistered user rather than their name? You have something to say but do not validate your post with a name. If you are a subject expert, it is hard to address or ask for your sources. From some of us vantage point, you fear of being exposed but quick to expose others who do not agree with you on any subject matter. It appears that you incest on being accepted by the masses, but always instigate issues that produce division, even among your own kind. It appears that you fear rejections but demand others to reject those who have conflicts about your life style. What a strange way to get others to accept your strengths and understand who you really are with your shortcomings. Maybe Gay is the wrong word to use to express what you are because your emotions express a very unstable person. Now, what would be a great word to use that matches your frame of mind and encourage others to want to accept you without the conflicts? What would your life be like without the melodramatics? Would you need a book to understand your plight?

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 3:33 p.m.

When big corporations go bad. When "don't be evil" becomes "don't be too evil". Amazon has now switched sides.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 3:36 p.m.

I made the first comment to the article. I didn't post as unregistered because I was queer (which I am, but that's beside the point), but because I was monstrously busy.

For the record, I'm Heather Corinna, the author of one of the deranked books, "S.E.X.: The All-You-Need-to-Know Progressive Sexuality Guide to get You Through High School and College."

Posted by Euterpe35 at 4/12/09 3:41 p.m.

klake: Too bad (for me) they don't have a "report douchebaggery" button on this site.

some people prefer to remain anonymous because they don't want to open up their lives to being spammed and harrassed. Some, like Heather Corinna wrote, just didn't take the time to register as a user on this site.

That said: I think the impending "Boycott Amazon" firestorm will bring about a change in the policy.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 3:42 p.m.

Hey klake, I'm a straight agnostic with friends in the LGBT community. Some of us are enraged about this too. Don't assume that this is a gay-only issue. And FYI, as an agnostic, my own beliefs conflict with those of major religions, but I'm not trying to force my beliefs on someone else. Amazon caters to a worldwide customer base with people of varying races, religions, sexual preferences, ages, genders, backgrounds, etc. Alienating a group because of their sexual preference is ridiculous. It would be understandable if they were doing this only for books with "adult content" like books with actual explicit sexual content. However when a book entitled "Heather has two mommies" is censored, that is when a line is crossed. When biographies of prominent gay entertainers are deranked, that is when the line is crossed. When books about explicit heterosexual sex and the collection of Playboy centerfolds are not deranked, this is where we have a problem.

Please stop. Your ignorance is showing. And for the record, I don't usually sign up for things like this because then I tend to get subscribed to newsletters and I like keeping my inbox free of stuff like that.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 3:43 p.m.

Maybe authors should publish at Smashwords instead. Of course, I'm biased.

Mark from Smashwords. Hi Andrea!

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 3:43 p.m.

KLAKE -

I'm not gay but just reading these comments. Most posters are anonymous (because who goes through the hassle of signing up on a website to post a 30-second comment?) Do you not understand that this topic is about Amazon's sales ranking policy, and not about the topic of anonymous homosexual commentators?

And learn how to write (need examples? "From some of us vantage point", "It appears that you incest..." - need I go on, really?) before criticizing your perceived homosexuals in a public forum. Please tell me that English is your second language, but from your stupid-looking pic I'm guessing your full-blooded 100% stupid American.

-Kevin
And go ahead and respond directly to me if you like, kevinmarzec@hotmail.com.

Posted by nform0 at 4/12/09 3:45 p.m.

So let me understand this better:

Is it all books dealing with sexual themes, or only gay ones?

e.g., Are heterosexual romance novels excluded too, or just anything having to do with homosexuality?

Posted by ptrthgr8 at 4/12/09 3:49 p.m.

So what? The last time I checked Amazon.com is a privately owned company (i.e. not run by the government - yet) and therefore can run it's business more or less as it sees fit (provided it's not breaking any laws of course - and this doesn't constitute the breaking of any laws). If you don't like it, go somewhere else... it really is as simple as that.

I'll never understand why some people get all worked up over things like this. Nobody is forcing anyone to shop with Amazon.com, right? Everyone goes there by choice, right? So if you don't like a company's policy, go spend your money somewhere else. Consumers vote with their wallets.

Posted by guyseattle at 4/12/09 3:55 p.m.

Amazon is wrong on this one. I find it sad that they will stand up for cock fighting, and dog fighting by refusing to pull materials that depict and some say glorify these two "sports". But homosexuality get's yanked at the drop of a hat. Amazon has lot's of gay and lesbian employees here in Seattle does the company treat them so calously. Looks like B&N.com; is my bookstore now.

Posted by nform0 at 4/12/09 3:57 p.m.

ptrthgr8,

I'm not seeing many people calling for government action to force Amazon to change its policy. People upset are talking about spending their money elsewhere, which is well within their rights. They're doing exactly what you said they should do: "vote with their wallets."

Posted by nform0 at 4/12/09 3:59 p.m.

guyseattle, I'm surprised the filter is not blocking "cock fighting" as well...

Posted by Nebula36 at 4/12/09 4:00 p.m.

a.)I don't think this is a big deal

and

b.)Powell's is overrated.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 4:04 p.m.

The "big deal" is that if you go to the "All Departments" (top) searchbox in Amazon at this moment and search for "homosexuality", the top-ranked books are about preventing homosexuality. "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality", to be specific.

This isn't as simple as just banning certain keywords. Some books with "bad" keywords got through -- as long as they were anti-gay. And *that* took a conscious choice on someone's part.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 4:05 p.m.

nform0, it is LOTS of books with homosexual themes, even books like "Unfriendly Fire: How the Gay Ban Undermines the Military and Weakens America," a couple books tagged as erotica that feature straight relationships, but NOT some clearly adult books like "Playboy: The Centerfolds Collection." Right now it is being applied EXTREMELY unevenly but with a clear prejudice against LGBT books, including many LGBT books that are clearly not "adult."

A list of books affected can be found here: http://community.livejournal.com/meta_writer/11992.html

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 4:05 p.m.

I'm going to complain via their customer service number at 800-201-7575. Perhaps more of us should.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 4:09 p.m.

Thanks for your input.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 4:15 p.m.

I've closed my Amazon Account and canceled outstanding pre-orders. My daughter, who brought this to my attention, has closed her account as well. We've emailed all of our relatives who know how much we like books and who are always sending us Amazon Certificates with a request they use alternate choices in the future.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 4:18 p.m.

My novel "Pixiesticks" by Jonathan Sexton has also indeed been de-ranked and no longer can be searched for without specifically asking for the book section.

Glad I've moved on to Lulu since then.

Posted by Seattle Mom2one at 4/12/09 4:20 p.m.

Amazon if you are reading this you will get a letter with my buying history, and I will not buy Amazon until you stop this! What militant christian got a hold of your business?! I will also actively work to bring you down to join all the businesses who practice hatred.

Posted by SeaDuck79 at 4/12/09 4:37 p.m.

And if I don't like it, I can choose to:

1) Shop somewhere else.
2) Start my own bookstore.
3) Stop choosing to be offended.
4) Complain like a two-year-old that it isn't FAAAIIIR!

Gee, I wonder which choice liberals will take.

Posted by KarmaC at 4/12/09 4:41 p.m.

Klake: why does it matter? Are you shooting for the message, or just the messenger?

Another bigot...big surprise. And I'm not gay, but I'm disgusted by people like you choosing to remain in our society and try to take away others' freedoms. You're an unpatriotic misanthrope and should feel free to leave our country any time.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 4:42 p.m.

It's Fahrenheit 451 for techno age.

What is possibly going on in the mind of a bookseller to censor books?!?

I thought a bookseller would be the champion of free speech.

Shame on you Amazon. Perhaps you need to have a homework assignment to read Bradbury. (For those of you at Amazon who are not all that familiar with books, Ray Bradbury wrote Fahrenheit 451. It's a book. A book about censoring books. Good read. Learn something.)

Posted by Seattle Mom2one at 4/12/09 4:52 p.m.

People who support a diverse humanity do not complain, we spread the news! We are giving those who do NOT practice hatred a chance to cancel orders and connect with alternative booksellers. We are listing phone numbers to tell Amazon WHY we are no longer buying from them.

Conservatives failed to silence us over the past 8yrs with threats and name-calling, give it up, you have lost!

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:04 p.m.

Girls Gone Wild. Still ranked.
How to Get Her to Watch Porn, Have Anal Sex, and Call Her Best Friend for a Threesome: Kindle Edition. Still ranked.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:07 p.m.

Blah blah...Greedy gays want to cry about everything.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:15 p.m.

This is akin to de-ranking all books about black Americans. It's an unbelievably boneheaded decision by Amazon.

I predict by tomorrow afternoon they'll have re-ranked all affected material and Jeff Bezos' will have issued a strong apology.

I can't fathom the rationale behind this decision by Amazon. Profoundly stupid.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:16 p.m.

It's great that Amazon's discriminatory & unevenly applied policies are getting exposure and opposition, but painting this as SOLELY an anti-gay policy overlooks all of the other content being targeted, mis-categorized as adult, etc. and how ridiculous it is in the first place to believe there's any fair way to administer a policy like this one. Plus it's pretty easy to find scads of GLBT authors whose work HASN'T been deranked (how about Augusten Burroughs' _Sellevision_ or _Running with Scissors_ which both have explicit statutory rape sex scenes? Or Gabaldon's popular historical romance _Outlander_ with the climactic man-on-man rape scene?). While I'm not arguing there's not an element of discrimination against work that seems "too gay", you're scopelocking way too narrowly. Amazon isn't limiting their discriminatory policies to GLBT authors and content and neither should people criticizing Amazon's policies. If you're going to cover this story, cover THE WHOLE THING. Making this sound like only queer and trans people are affected makes it too easy for people to find exceptions to that rule and dismiss this act of sabotage which could just as easily be seen as targeting small presses, feminists, people who don't make Amazon enough money, frank sexual content (as opposed to the stuff that's hidden after 100+ pages), etc. The less competition they have on their best-seller lists, the easier it is to sell those titles left on them.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:27 p.m.

SeaDuck79,

Tracking customer complaints is a way organizations monitor their overall market effectiveness. If people suddenly just stop shopping at Amazon without letting them know why (complaining like a two-year old), they won't have any idea why they're losing business, therefore, cannot change policies that cause them to lose business.

If your favorite store, that you've shopped at for years, suddenly changes its policy to discriminate against who you are and/or what you believe in without any warning, I'm sure you'd be just as scathing as a lot of people are about Amazon right now.

Amazon is a private industry, yes, but it has always been a neutral source of products without any agenda. Now, now suddenly it appears as if it is pushing an anti-gay campaign after years of professional neutrality. The people that this affects were not informed beforehand. If they were, they would have never used Amazon's services and would have went elsewhere.

What will I choose to do now? 1 and 2. Shop somewhere else and complain like a two-year-old that it isn't FAAAIIIR! I will continue to be offended as long as these new policies are in place, just as I am offended and disgusted at all the other privatized organizations with anti-gay policies.

Voychael.

Posted by Scott Burdette at 4/12/09 5:29 p.m.

Here you go "Klake". I'm gay, registered under my real name (unlike Klake) and more of a man than you'll ever be you washed up douche.

Posted by crcgust at 4/12/09 5:32 p.m.

First, folks, don't even respond to klake - he's a nutball of the first generation and he's constantly mocked on ALL SoundOffs. Replying to him is wasting your time.

Second, I agree with the Farenheit 451 comment - it's a high-tech version of book burning minus the fire. I'm kind of surprised by this but you know what? Isn't it time to start supporting the local bookdealers again? It's nice to go to the bookstore, feel the weight of the book in your hands, the texture of the paper and the smell of the ink AND you can get it cheaper because you're not paying for packaging and delivery costs. Better yet - how about the library?! Free, you can get any book you want (and waiting for the library to get a book in is about as long as it takes to order and receive a book in the mail anyhow), you can even borrow all the latest music and movies at the library! AND the library will stock ANY books and won't make judgment calls on them or you.

Sorry, Amazon, you just shot yourself in the foot. Wasn't it bad enough a couple years ago when you could barely stay afloat and now you go around insulting and offending a HUGE book-buying population (I mean, come on, who do you think is more literate and more likely to buy books from you guys - the LGBT community or the megachurch community?)

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:36 p.m.

Bookmark 'o the day: Powell's Books

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:39 p.m.

Amazon has been homophobic and transphobic for years, and I'm sorry it's taken everyone until now to realize that. Oh, it's so easy to use them -- yeah, well, guess what. It was apparently easy for them to use us too.

Although I have very little use for the HRC in general, their Corporate Equality Index provides a lot of good info about where and how to spend $$ to make a difference. The queer community has this ability -- see Coors boycott in the 1970s, Miller/RJR Reynolds/Nabisco boycott in the early 1990s.

So Amazon has scored low for a long while because they don't have a lot of pro-gay policies and their trans policies are abyssmal.

There are a lot of other places to buy books. On the internet, off the internet, wherever. We don't have to support a corporation that doesn't support us.

Thanks.

Rafe P
Maryland

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:44 p.m.

You're deluding yourself if you think Amazon has always been "neutral" and never had any policies like this one. Example: years ago they refused to grant me an affiliate account because my blog has "adult" content. Years later? POLICY CHANGE - they realized maybe they DO want money from adult bloggers, etc. Now I do have one (though the books with my writing in them have now been deranked and ghettoized).

As far as everyone suggesting Powell's as THE GOLDEN ANSWER, you're oversimplifying things. I love Powell's as much as the next person, but don't you who visit Seattle websites live locally and know anyone who WORKS at Amazon? Because I do. My hope is that they change the policy so I can continue to shop there. Also, Powell's doesn't carry toasters, cameras, and all of the other stuff you can buy via Amazon. Duh.

And yes, I'm too lazy to register but I'm the same person who posted #287425.

*Trixie*

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:50 p.m.

Treat them all the same. Who cares what their sexual preference is? I'm straight but I don't care.

Posted by Ellen E at 4/12/09 5:53 p.m.

Whoever implemented this policy needs to start looking for another job, yesterday. Preferably something not involving customer service, as they have no clue.

Amazon is going to lose so much face over this it's painful to contemplate. Back to Alibris.com for me.

-Eades is the last name.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:53 p.m.

Oh, and if the PI ever bans your account just go out and get a new email account and then remove the PI cookie on your PC. Then you'll be able to get right back on and blog again.

The whole ban thing amounts to about a 5 minute inconvenience.

And, the PI will ban you if they don't like what you write - even if you don't violate their blog policy.

Posted by ephy at 4/12/09 5:56 p.m.

What the heck? This from a company that was supposed hate corporate culture, etc. and be from the 'liberal' Northwest to boot. I wish I hadn't just given them $75 last week!

I'm not gay and this just makes me angry. A bookstore should not be censoring the spread of information. I am glad that whoever enjoys cockfighting can read about it on their Kindle, if they choose to do such things.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 5:59 p.m.

Rafe P - you sound like an angry person, and you are very misinformed. Amazon is neither homophobic or transphobic. I work for them and am openly gay. My partner is protected by their domestic partnership policy. Infact, when we moved here Amazon covered all our expenses and moved both our cars as part of their domestic partnership policy. HRC has a certain agenda and while it's a good one, it has a very high bar. I hope one day Amazon can score highly on the report, but on the flip side, it's a frugal company and I somehow suspect they score "mediocre" or "low" on many minority reports because in general, it just accepts everyone and has very few rules explicitly targeted toward a certain group. Everyone is just treated with fairness. There are 2 transgendered people that I know of on the retail side (vs. technology or some other branch of the company). There are many gay people. There is an internal Gay and Lesbian Amazon group called Glamazon. You can contact them at glamazon@amazon.com.

Spreading rubbish like your post is embarrasing and harmful.

I bet you Amazon has this fixed as soon as it gets noticed.

Posted by klake at 4/12/09 6:15 p.m.

Posted by Scott Burdette at 4/12/09 5:29 p.m.

Here you go "Klake". I'm gay, registered under my real name (unlike Klake) and more of a man than you'll ever be you washed up douche.
Thanks Scott and we all love you for it. Thanks for the nice comment and have a Happy Easter.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 6:20 p.m.

EASY way to deal with it: Shop elsewhere.
Powell's FTW!!

Every book you could possibly want -- new, used, and out-of-print -- at great prices. Sincerely awesome customer service. And searching for "homosexuality" brings up books like "How Homosexuality Saved Civilization."

I'm just sayin'

http://www.powells.com/

Posted by klake at 4/12/09 6:21 p.m.

Rafe P - you sound like an angry person, and you are very misinformed. Amazon is neither homophobic or transphobic. I work for them and am openly gay. My partner is protected by their domestic partnership policy. Infact, when we moved here Amazon covered all our expenses and moved both our cars as part of their domestic partnership policy. HRC has a certain agenda and while it's a good one, it has a very high bar. I hope one day Amazon can score highly on the report, but on the flip side, it's a frugal company and I somehow suspect they score "mediocre" or "low" on many minority reports because in general, it just accepts everyone and has very few rules explicitly targeted toward a certain group. Everyone is just treated with fairness. There are 2 transgendered people that I know of on the retail side (vs. technology or some other branch of the company). There are many gay people. There is an internal Gay and Lesbian Amazon group called Glamazon. You can contact them at glamazon@amazon.com.

Spreading rubbish like your post is embarrasing and harmful.

I bet you Amazon has this fixed as soon as it gets noticed.
Now that is what I like to hear and other companies do the same but don't make a big deal about it. To bad no Name but great point.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 6:32 p.m.

For what it's worth.. I'm seeing plenty of ways to find Gay and Lesbian content on Amazon.com -- check out 'Shop All Departments - Movies - Video On Demand' - on the left under TV Genres it lists 'Gay and Lesbian'. I think it has more to do with how folks like to find the material, but I wouldn't know.. why not contact Amazon to find out what's going on before getting all excited without any information? Isn't that the ultimate judging and bigotry act.. to judge someone without talking to them?

Posted by Frank Chaffee at 4/12/09 6:40 p.m.

Just to check on the accuracy of the claim, I did a little research on both Amazon and Barnes & Noble to see what an "all departments" search on "homosexuality" would yield. The results are below, and are far from a slam dunk indictment of Amazon. It's really unfortunate that that awful Nicolosi book comes up first on the Amazon site. But if you look at other items in the top 15 for the Amazon search there are plenty of items that could be considered "gay positive" or at least "objective." So, I'm not seeing a particular censoring effect in the actual output of their search function. Which is what makes their explicit acknowledgement of excluding "adult" content from some summaries all the more puzzling. It just seems like a downright stupid move on the part of Amazon. It makes no sense to impose the kind of outrageous censorship in one section of their search and summary functions, yet leave intact other sections that would still generate content that moralists would find offensive. It is definitely counter to the spirit of a free press for Amazon to institute their recent "adult content" screen on items of gay interest, and they really need to be pressured into repealing this ill-advised choice ASAP. However, it is amusing that they have executed this change so poorly. If their intent was to scrub "offensive" gay content from search results, well their method isn't acheiving that outcome very well. Sort of like shooting themselves in the foot twice: anger the people who value uncensored content, and anger the moralists by continuing to allow gay positive content to be found in a search. Amazon definitely needs to change this ill-advised policy.

Barnes & Noble, all departments search on "homosexuality," top 10, on 4-12-09:

1. What the Bible Really Says about Homosexuality : Millennium Edition by Helminiak
2. When Homosexuality Hits Home : What to do When a Loved One Says They're Gay by Joe Dallas
3. Say the Word by Jeannine Garsee
4. Keeping You a Secret by Julie Anne Peters
5. Prayers for Bobby : A Mother's Coming to Terms with the Suicide of Her Gay Son by Leroy Aarons
6. Empress of the World by Sara Ryan
7. Peter by Kate Walker
8. And Tango Makes Three by Justin Richardson, Peter Parnell, Henry Cole ( Illustrator)
9. Rainbow Road by Alex Sanchez
10. Homosexuality and Christian Faith : Questions of Conscience for the Churches by Walter Wink ( Editor)
(Definitely Gay Positive or at least objective are items 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)



Amazon.com, all departments search on "homosexuality," top 15, on 4-12-09:
1. A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality by Joseph Nicolosi and Linda Ames Nicolosi
2. Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality, Revised and Expanded Edition: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church by Jack Rogers
3. For The Bible Tells Me So ~ Gene Robinson, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and Imogene Robinson
4. Can Homosexuality Be Healed? by Francis MacNutt
5. King & King & Family by Linda De Haan, Stern Mijland, and Stern Nijland
6. The Bible, Christianity, & Homosexuality by Justin R. Cannon
7. You Don't Have to Be Gay: Hope and Freedom for Males Struggling With Homosexuality or for Those Who Know of Someone Who Is by Jeff Konrad
8. Rock Haven ~ Sean Hoagland; Owen Alabado; Laura Jane Coles; Katheryn Hecht
9. Homosexuality and the Bible: Two Views by Robert A. J. Gagnon and Dan O. Via
10. Uncle Bobby's Wedding by Sarah S. Brannen (Hardcover - Mar 27, 2008)
11. Shelter ~ Brad Rowe, Tina Holmes, Mat Bushell, and Trevor Wright
12. God is not a Homophobe: An unbiased look at Homosexuality in the Bible by Philo Thelos
13. The Bible, Christianity, & Homosexuality by Justin R. Cannon
14. Fishing In The Right Pond: Finding and Pursuing Gay Guys In a Straight World by Kenneth David Chase
15. Focus on the Family~Hot Topics~Homosexuality... Different? (VHS Tape - 1999)
(Definitely Gay Positive or at least objective are items 3, 5, 9, 10, 11, 12)

Posted by PastorRodFlash at 4/12/09 6:40 p.m.

"unregistered user" says that Rafe P is "very misinformed. Amazon is neither homophobic or transphobic. I work for them and am openly gay."

According to your argument, everyone always walks their walk and talks their talk.

Really. For all we know Jeff Bezos is gay. Who knows! Who cares! The issue at hand isn't whether the corporation is personally friendly to the "LGBT community." It's the revised search policy that's being discussed in this thread.

Posted by hybridappendix at 4/12/09 6:43 p.m.

I'm an independent seller on Amazon. Now buyers can't find some of my inventory to purchase. I sell used and rare books of all kinds; I look for inventory that will be in demand and make a little money to support my family. I don't care who my customers are as long as they are honest and fairminded enough to do business. I don't censure what they can buy and read, especially not based on gender/orientation topics. Why is Amazon trying to hurt me?

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 6:48 p.m.

Here, Here! I, too, work for Amazon and have for almost 10 years. I can say with 100% confidence that Amazon's policies are not made with any consideration of gender makeup or gender preference. We only care that you do your job well. In my experience, there are, for the most part, two main considerations in decision making: 1) Performance/Efficiency, and 2) Cost/benefit. Can we lower the costs and pass the savingd on to our customers while maintaining the customer experience?

A note on my colleague's post about the glamazonamazon.com mailing list: An attempt to contact the list may not succeed. Many of our internal lists cannot cannot receive email from outside of our corporate network in order to eliminate spam. I don't know whether this one does or not.

Posted by falcon A at 4/12/09 6:57 p.m.

That sucks and if you're ranked one million or higher, who is going to respond and spend the resources to give a darn?

So, without looking at the titles, there is the potential of moving higher within the ranks. I think I understand. This so-called ranking should not exclude anyone no matter if they edge on infinity (earth's biggest selection?).

Wall Street has downgraded gays since around the third grade and thereabouts, and I'm sorry. Standard & Poor's doesn't look so fondly on gay people, either, because it is busy giving the likes of Lehman Brothers the 4-star ranking.

So, my point is that this de-gaying of the ranking system is a gamble to get some (short term) points from the surveyors (this will help with Q2 analysis and major shareholders). In reality/long run, Amazon has much more to give to businesses and customers, not withstanding Wall Street pie charts, but sometimes, at the expense of gay authors, the stock price is of utmost importance during Spring Break.

Tits!

Posted by Calamity Kate at 4/12/09 7:10 p.m.

Go Amazon! Way to clean up smut. I won't be boycotting you, and plan to place a 15+ book order tonight.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 7:20 p.m.

Posted by klake at 4/12/09 3:28 p.m.:

"Why do gays post as an unregistered user rather than their name?"

So people like you don't find us.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 7:23 p.m.

Klake, we post anonymously because people like you like to beat us to a pulp when we advocate for our rights.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 7:31 p.m.

Calamity Kate

while you're ordering, there's a great book about how to raise dogs to get into the exciting sport of dog fighting. that book, which glorifies the dogfighting sport and it's totally humane training methods has not been deranked so you should be able to find it easily.

good luck and good reading!

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 7:49 p.m.

Calamity Kate: I find the way you're sticking your tongue out to be highly suggestive, lewd and smutty. I'll write to the PI to "clean you up".

Posted by birch77 at 4/12/09 8:01 p.m.

I shop at ABE books--Alibris--Powells--Foyles--Blackwells. I haven't shopped at Amazon for a while. I didn't have a specific reason, I just didn't need them and found better suppliers. Yes their prices are OK but I can match them in other places. This boneheaded decision on their part is a reason, a big one. No I don't happen to be gay, but I take Niemoller statement seriously. If we don't stand up for others rights there will be no one to stand up for our rights. For those who want smut cleaned up by hiding books you don't approve of I wonder how much pressure it would take for Amazon to quit selling the books you like. They also are still selling hetrosexual smut. I figure anyone who will sell books on how to abuse animals for fun and profit but not sell books on gay subjects should are the sort of people who should be boycotted. Yes I know that if you search hard enough you can find them but I am not interested in a company which makes it hard for you based their opinion of your interests. Lots of other bookstores out there online and at ABE or at Alibris there is a larger selection than at Amazon, you are supporting smal bookstores, and they are usually cheaper even with shipping than Amazon. People, Amazon doesn't have the biggest selection and isn't even the cheapest.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 8:25 p.m.

I can't say I shop at Amazon, since I don't, after a Christmas package was lost last year and their outsourced service representative told me it was my job to find it through the local post office (if possible), not their responsibility to actually get the stuff I'd paid for delivered to me.

What I can say, though, is that I will actively discourage others to boycott them, since no one I know likes doing business with bigots, and since no one I know needs a nanny to tell them what they should read.

Posted by klake at 4/12/09 8:37 p.m.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 7:23 p.m.

Klake, we post anonymously because people like you like to beat us to a pulp when we advocate for our rights.

Sorry I don't beat up people who can not defend themselves. I aways make it a point of defending those who lack the will or unable to defend themselves. You might drop the sterotyping and life will look brigher.

Posted by rightgrrl at 4/12/09 8:38 p.m.

it's not gay, it's porno. period.

amazon is wise to remove it. if it showed up, 80% of it's family customers would revolt or block their kids from seeing it.

Posted by jim hamilton at 4/12/09 8:47 p.m.

Maybe this relates to my experience. I was on the amazon site adding books to my check out cart and in the past several days I had collected 2 or 3 pages of books to buy at a total of more than $1500.
After a little more shopping, I went to my cart and every single book had dissapeared with a $0 balance showing. When I called them I was advised that I must have gone in and deleted all or the titles. ie: I deleted 3 pages of "to buy now" books one at a time and either don't recall or am lying about my "mistake". They said they cannot help me.
The bulk of the books in my cart were gay-related titles.

Posted by DAVIDRF at 4/12/09 8:47 p.m.

"Go Amazon! Way to clean up smut. I won't be boycotting you, and plan to place a 15+ book order tonight."

I guess books like "Twilight" should be excluded from best sellers searches because they have bloodshed and romance and the exchanging of bodily fluids.

Tell me Kate, do you consider books like that "smut" or only the ones that offend your oh-so-delicate sensibilities?

Posted by Terrorist at 4/12/09 8:49 p.m.

Waa Waa waa

From what I'm reading Amazon carries gay books. They don't appear to be as popular as others so Amazon doesn't rank them high. It's called business. Get a grip people.

Posted by You Big Weirdo at 4/12/09 8:49 p.m.

And here I was thinking abt selling my novels for Kindle. Not unless outrage is ended.

Posted by msgypsy at 4/12/09 8:53 p.m.

What I'm trying to figure out is, if it was a "glitch" is there any effort being made to correct it? And if no effort is being made, and if it hasn't miraculously been corrected, does this mean that a glitch caused them to totally reevaluate their policies to protect a small group of people from not knowing how NOT to click on links to things they aren't interested in?

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 9:14 p.m.

Don't worry Amazon customers. Management is already fixing this glitz on the system. you should hear updates by tomorrow. Please bear with us. Thanks.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 9:14 p.m.

apparently amazon is de-ranking books regarding disability as well... just want to put it out there.

Posted by unregistered user at 4/12/09 9:30 p.m.

@ #287483: Don't worry Amazon customers. Management is already fixing this glitz on the system. you should hear updates by tomorrow. Please bear with us. Thanks.

A 'glitz'? Yeah, right. What kind of idiots do you take us for, considering the response to Mark Pobst enquiry was

In consideration of our entire customer base, we exclude "adult" material from appearing in some searches and best seller lists. Since these lists are generated using sales ranks, adult materials must also be excluded from that feature.

Hence, if you have further questions, kindly write back to us.

Best regards,

Ashlyn D
Member Services
Amazon.com Advantage

Oh yes, Amazon had better fix this asap and not try a stealthy repeat or I'll be moving my business elsewhere. The choices are better at Abebooks and as a bonus when I am there I am not inundated by Twilight-y trash.

Posted by Panzo at 4/12/09 9:32 p.m.

What's next?

Removing Judy Garland CDs and flannel shirts?