Talk:Kievan Rus'

The common English-language name for the medieval state centred around modern-day Kyiv is Kievan Rus'

Although the modern-day capital of Ukraine is commonly spelled Kyiv in current English, per the Wikipedia policy WP:COMMONNAME and the community consensus outlined on this talk page in April 2021, we use the spelling for the medieval state that is the more common name in English-language historiography, which is Kievan Rus', not Kyivan Rus'. This is not a comment on the identity or association of the medieval state to any modern country, language or culture; it is merely the spelling by which it is more commonly known in English-language literature.

Please do not request that Kievan Rus' be changed to Kyivan Rus': any such request will be denied.

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

RM, Kievan Rus' → Kyivan Rus', Not moved, 19 April 2021, discussion

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What are those two efns?

In the first sentence, following the bolded instance of the article title. What are these footnotes? What are they supposed to be telling us? ꧁Zanahary꧂ 08:57, 2 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Notes ^[a][b] are sources attesting the spelling Kievan Rus′, and notes ^[6][7] are sources attesting the spelling Kyivan Rus′. Doremo (talk) 09:42, 2 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

no such thing as "Kievan" Rus'

There was never a country by the name of "Kievan Rus'", just "Rus'". The former is an invention by 19th century propagandists of country known today as "Russia", trying to imply the existence of any other Rus' (before then, <adjective> Rus' meant solely an administrative division of Rus'). I'd suggest editing the lede accordingly. -KiloByte (talk) 21:50, 8 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source? Sumanuil. _{(talk to me)} 04:15, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not done The terms Kievan Rus' and Kyivan Rus' are long-standing conventions in historiography, and as such the WP:COMMONNAMEs for this subject. 99% of all discussions on this talk page are about names, or the spelling of names, and all of them simply confirm the consensus. Your suggestion has been done many times before, but does not enjoy majority support. There will be no change in the title or the lead section. See also the note above this talk page about the name. Good day, NLeeuw (talk) 07:43, 9 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Transfer of the capital

@Plur853: Please explain the issue with the sources. There are three good sources cited that mention that there are foreign sources from the time that challenge the chronology given in the Primary Chronicle (that Kiev became the princely center in 882). You mention supposed research on De Administrando Imperio that disproves this, although this is not even mentioned in the text, and there are other sources that exist. Not to mention that the authors themselves say that there is no strong evidence for this (which is also related to the major gap during Igor's reign in the Chronicle). Mellk (talk) 11:18, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, you have recently suggested me to improve Ruthenians article by adding more citations, but I also think some of your edits are a bit too bold in this area. For instance, only one of your sources (Jefferson) say that Novgorod was the capital in 900s, referring to De administrado imperio specifically. But there are other sources (such as this one https://nasplib.isofts.kiev.ua/items/ca6f56b8-5916-465e-911b-06cd7d51fa68) which tell that Novgorod was the capital of Outer Rus specifically in De administrado imperio. Other editor also seems to have expressed concern about this. Plur853 (talk) 13:12, 15 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

These appear to be solid scholarly sources that should have much greater weight than a single paper, one of them is also more recent.

Also, if there are multiple viewpoints then we should mention both according to their weight in RS rather then removing well-sourced content. Alaexis_¿question? 21:45, 18 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I highly doubt you're replying to Mellk, but just in case, you may want to move your reply so your POV is clear. TylerBurden (talk) 15:49, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if it was unclear, my point was that the sources in the removed chunk appear reliable and therefore the removal was unjustified. If there is an alternative viewpoint then it should be added in line with WP:DUE. Alaexis_¿question? 19:33, 19 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]