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Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment

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Request name Motions  Case Posted
Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 4 Motion (orig. case) 25 August 2025
Clarification request: Extended confirmed restriction none none 9 October 2025
Motion name Date posted
WP:ARBPIA EC by default adjustment 2 October 2025
Requests for clarification and amendment

Use this page to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.

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Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 4

[edit]

Initiated by Newslinger at 01:04, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
Palestine-Israel articles 4 arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested
  1. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#Definition of the "area of conflict"
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Information about amendment request

Statement by Newslinger

[edit]

I recently encountered a user talk page discussion titled "Views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the Gaza war", in which Patternbuffered said, "I was going to just revert, but I'll give you a day or so to clean it up", in reference to article content related to the Arab–Israeli conflict. As Patternbuffered was not extended confirmed, the extended confirmed restriction (ECR) of WP:CT/A-I prohibited Patternbuffered from performing the described revert.

Per current practice (e.g. ScottishFinnishRadish's warning of Long-live-ALOPUS in another discussion for violating ECR by posting another user talk page comment), my understanding is that ECR also prohibited Patternbuffered from starting the user talk page discussion in the first place. However, Patternbuffered pointed out to me that the wording of the clause in question excludes "userspace" from the "area of conflict" without additional qualifiers. Long-live-ALOPUS also interpreted the clause as it was written.

I do not believe it is the intent of the userspace exception to allow non–extended confirmed users to openly discuss the Arab–Israeli conflict on other users' talk pages in ways that are prohibited in other namespaces and restricted on article talk pages. I ask the Arbitration Committee to amend the clause to limit the exception to the editor's own userspace, which better reflects existing practice. — Newslinger talk 01:04, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@ScottishFinnishRadish: The problem is that, in the lead section of WP:CT/A-I, the text "with certain exceptions as provided below" contains a link to WP:CT/A-I § ARBPIA General Sanctions, which does invoke the term "area of conflict" in the bullet point "Extended confirmed restriction: The extended confirmed restriction is imposed on the area of conflict." An editor who is unfamiliar with the case history cannot be expected to know that ECR applies to the entire topic area (and not just the defined "area of conflict") after reading the WP:CT/A-I page. — Newslinger talk 14:23, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Patternbuffered

[edit]

As I wrote on my talk page I was fine with the warning and just curious about an apparent loophole. I agree it should be addressed to mitigate future confusion or conflict; how that should be done I will leave in more experienced hands. Patternbuffered (talk) 11:51, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Long-live-ALOPUS

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Statement by Thryduulf

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While at first glance the simple change seems unproblematic, there does need to be some allowance for posting on other users' talk pages. The first scenario that comes to mind is:

  • User:Example is not extended-confirmed. They make a good-faith edit to content related to the area of dispute on a page that is not ECP protected.
  • User:Foo reverts this edit on the grounds that Example is not extended-confirmed
  • User:Example posts on user talk:Foo seeking clarification (maybe they didn't understand jargon used in the summary)
  • User:Foo replies
  • User:Example posts a follow-up question (e.g. perhaps still not understanding, perhaps disagreeing that the content is related to the dispute)

As long as Example is not sealioning or otherwise acting in bad faith, we don't want to prohibit this sort of interaction yet a simple reading of the proposed language would do that. My first thought is a much-wordsmithed "this does not include discussion of actions taken regarding a user's own edits that takes place on the talk page of the user taking that action." While "discussion with the editor taking that action" is simpler, it would prohibit follow-up to a reply given by a talk-page stalker which I don't think would be desirable. Other things to consider are that good-faith, genuinely new editors are not guaranteed to know about pinging users to their own talk page, won't know how to determine whether some other editor is or is not extended-confirmed and if the queried actions relate to more than one editor (e.g. User:Foo reverted user:Example and user:Example2) it is better for all concerned for all discussion about it to happen on a single page. Thryduulf (talk) 01:35, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Zero0000

[edit]

At WP:ARBPIA4#Definition of the "area of conflict" it says "For the purposes of editing restrictions in the ARBPIA topic area, the "area of conflict" shall be defined as encompassing...edits relating to the Arab-Israeli conflict, to pages and discussions in all namespaces with the exception of userspace.". And the application of ARBECR to PIA is "The extended confirmed restriction is imposed on the area of conflict." (my bold). So, even if "topic area" at WP:ARBECR is more general than "area of conflict", the ARBPIA page explicitly exempts userspace from it.

To repeat myself, ARBPIA4 does not apply ARBECR to the PIA "topic area" but only to the "area of conflict", which is a defined domain.

If ArbCom wants to replace the motion, they should do so with a motion to repeal and replace it, as this is not the first time the issue has come up and it won't be the last unless it is put to rest.

Personally I think that there is nothing wrong with a general userspace exemption, but reducing it to own-userspace would not be a big problem. On the other hand, restricting non-ECs from making comments in their own userspace would seem to have no purpose whatever, as there are other mechanisms for handling disruption. What sense is there in allowing edit requests on article talk pages but disallowing the same on own talk? I think own-userspace should be a general exemption to ECR in all topics. Zerotalk 12:02, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {other-editor}

[edit]

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.

Palestine-Israel articles 4: Clerk notes

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This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Palestine-Israel articles 4: Arbitrator views and discussion

[edit]

Motion: Repealing primary articles/related content distinction

[edit]

Remedy 4 of the Palestine-Israel articles 4 case ("Definition of the 'area of conflict'") is amended to read as follows: For the purposes of editing restrictions in the ARBPIA topic area, the "area of conflict" is the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly interpreted.

Remedy 5 is amended by appending the following text: The {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice}} editnotice and the {{ArbCom Arab-Israeli enforcement}} talk page notice should be used on pages within the area of conflict. When only parts of a page fall within the area of conflict, if there is confusion about which content is considered related, the content in question may be marked in the wiki source with an invisible comment. Once added by any editor, any marking, template, or editnotice may be removed only by an uninvolved administrator.

Remedy 6, Remedy 7, and Remedy 8 of the Palestine-Israel articles 4 case are repealed.

For this motion there are 15 active arbitrators. With 0 arbitrators abstaining, 8 support or oppose votes are a majority.
Support
  1. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:12, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  2. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:28, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Daniel (talk) 00:05, 10 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
Abstain
Arbitrator discussion

Clarification request: Extended confirmed restriction

[edit]

Initiated by Ahecht at 14:54, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
WP:ARBECR

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Statement by Ahecht

[edit]

I am requesting clarification on whether contesting a speedy deletion on the talk page is considered an edit request for the purposes of WP:ARBECR. This issue originally came up at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 224#User Intarface encourages actions that are against rules and can have unintended consquences for new users and was further discussed at Template talk:Db-meta#Modify Db-meta template to hide "Contest this speedy deletion" button to non-extended-confirmed users on pages with ARBECR restriction.. In the latter discussion, Primefac suggested that contesting an speedy deletion on the talk page could potentially be considered a type of edit request, while HouseBlaster was unsure whether we should prevent a non XC editor from contesting a speedy deletion altogether because the likelyhood of success is low, or whether we should modify the notice to instruct all non-XC editors, even if they're not the page creator, to contest on the talk page rather than trying to remove the speedy deletion tag themselves if the page is subject to WP:ARBECR.

Statement by GWWU

[edit]

Statement by {other-editor}

[edit]

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.

Extended confirmed restriction: Clerk notes

[edit]
This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Extended confirmed restriction: Arbitrator views and discussion

[edit]
  • Contesting a CSD is not an edit request. If you can't discuss the deletion of an article you can't request a CSD be removed or added. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:59, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not an edit request in my opinion, which has a very narrow definition. Prohibited by ARBECR. Daniel (talk) 19:45, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • It doesn't matter much. "Contesting" a speedy deletion is a non-formal process adding a mostly meaningless message to a talk page that, if we're honest, often won't even be read before deletion. It is not the start of a formal internal project discussion such as an actual deletion discussion at WP:AfD. And it is equivalent to creating a formal edit request for "Please replace {{the CSD template}} by nothing". To me, it doesn't matter if we explicitly forbid making the last protesting comment before the page and the comment are removed forever. We should perhaps clarify that blocking someone for clicking a button inviting them to do so, and de-facto for creating an edit request, would be rather inappropriate. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:29, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    PS: I think the only reason why this blue button exists is to secretly discourage users from removing the speedy deletion template by letting them send a meaningless message, channeling their frustration to a place where it doesn't disrupt the process, instead. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 23:07, 9 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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