Talk:Russian Civil War

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Left-wing uprisings against the Bolsheviks was merged into Russian Civil War with this edit on 28 May 2023 after being nominated for deletion. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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removal

@Remsense what do you mean by "things that were removed on purpose"? i changed the number of deaths to the one stated in the source, replaced "social-democratic" with "centrist" and provided sources for that, added that it turned into a full-scale war in 1918 and provided sources for that as well Opostylov (talk) 11:33, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Got diffs mixed up, my apologies. Remsense ‥ 论 11:40, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Problems with the front page

The front page of this article mentions 1919 White Army offensives without mentioning any of the gains made by any of them in that sentence, only brining them up when it talks about the Red Army counteroffensives reversing these gains.

I also have problems with the sentence "By 1919, the White armies were in retreat and by the start of 1920 were defeated on all three fronts." Not only was there still sporadic resistance by the White forces until 1923, but it took a while into 1919 for the White Army to actually be in retreat (and they were still able to launch offensives during that time).

Lastly, I feel like the last paragraph should go earlier in the article since the Great Siberian Ice March occurred after many of the events listed in the previous paragraphs (particularly the success of the separatist movements). LordOfWalruses (talk) 19:47, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The lead is a summary of the article body. If readers would like details, they should read the actual article. With that in mind, do you feel the lead does a poor job at balancing its summary of the material in the article body? Remsense ‥ 论 19:50, 20 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Canadian troops

British forces include a Canadian contingent, but this is not mentioned. 67.208.31.163 (talk) 01:36, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Misleading statement in lede

Hello Mellk,

The statement in question is misleading, as it is worded.

This phrase, ... which became a full-scale civil war in May–June 1918, clearly indicates this is how long the civil war lasted.
Instead I would recommend something like this:

. . . Bolshevik seizure of power was not universally accepted, and the country descended into a conflict in May–June 1918, which ultimately resulted in full-scale civil war, lasting five years. — Best, -- Gwillhickers (talk) 16:48, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I can see what you mean, but this statement is referring to the beginning of full-scale (civil) war and organized military conflict. See for example this: "Because the Bolsheviks did not consolidate their power until their victory in a three-year civil war, many histories ostensibly about the 'Russian Revolution' include not only the events of 1917 but also their immediate aftermath in early 1918, and then the civil war, which began in mid-1918 and lasted until 1921."

This article traces the origins of the civil war to the October Revolution and there was indeed some fighting (e.g. Kerensky–Krasnov uprising), but full-scale (civil) war did not begin until after the revolt of the Czechoslovak Legion and Allied intervention. Perhaps there is a better way to phrase this? Mellk (talk) 17:40, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I understand the distinction between the various events, but if there is a way to clearly differentiate the date range of May–June 1918, from the time span of the five year civil war, I would recommend such a change, as again the statement easily leads one to believe that the civil war was from May to June. Anyway, I'll leave it in your hands. Thanx for looking out. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 18:00, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I see. My only issue with your proposed sentence is that it implies that there was full-scale fighting from 1917 to 1922 (this is usually dated from 1918 to 1921). I agree that the current sentence is not ideal. If we could improve upon your proposed sentence further then I think we will be able to implement this change. Mellk (talk) 18:09, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, how would this statement fare?

'Bolshevik seizure of power was not universally accepted, and the country descended into a conflict in May–June 1918, whose volatile sentiments fed into the full-scale civil war that lasted for five years.'
-- Gwillhickers (talk) 22:18, 26 September 2025 (UTC).[reply]

How can we avoid stating that full-scale civil war lasted from 1917 to 1922? What if we tweaked this so that we have "...the country descended into full-scale conflict in May–June 1918, whose volatile sentiments fed into the ~~full-scale~~ civil war that lasted for five years"? Mellk (talk) 15:06, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The lede currently states ...became a full-scale civil... It would seem 'became' is the operative word here. We can omit 'full-scale' if you see a problem. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 17:01, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For now I suggest we go with this proposal:
'Bolshevik seizure of power was not universally accepted, and the country descended into a conflict in May–June 1918, whose volatile sentiments soon culminated into a full-scale civil war that lasted for five years.'
-- Gwillhickers (talk) 17:05, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I think there is still a misunderstanding here. May–June 1918 is referring to the beginning of full-scale war (so the conflict transitioned to full-scale civil war from around May/June 1918). I suppose we could say something like "the country descended into a conflict that became a full-scale civil war by May–June 1918" (alternatively we can just say May 1918 or mid-1918). Your proposed wording still suggests that there was full-scale war from 1917 to 1922, when the beginning of full-scale war was only in mid-1918. If there is no misunderstanding on your part, then please let me know in more detail what I am missing here. Mellk (talk) 17:12, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Re your reply Your proposed wording still suggests that there was full-scale war from 1917 to 1922...
Actually my proposal doesn't say that — it says that the May-June conflict soon culminated into a full-scale war, not that the full scale war began during this time. Once again, I'll leave matters in your hands. Cheers. -- Gwillhickers (talk) 20:43, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying. I see what you mean now. Mellk (talk) 04:33, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]