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September 20

"Fluorescent" light tubes, attempt #2

This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

The following question is still waiting for an answer: Now that true fluorescent lights have been banned (no thanks to those goddam environmentalists), where TF can I get a straight 48-inch T12 bi-pin type A (or type C) LED replacement in warm white color (with a color temperature of ~2700K or less), as opposed to "bright white" (3000K)? Also, last time I asked, a related issue has been brought up -- namely, that of calculating the resultant color temperature from a mixture of light sources -- and this begs the following question: how exactly do you calculate it? I'm sure it's not a straight arithmetic average, is it??? (Also, inter alia, I protest against the collective punishment to which I have been subjected for someone else's misdeeds, and which has very likely prevented me from getting my question answered due to preventing me from asking follow-up questions in a timely manner, and I demand disciplinary action against the admin who has done this to me! And yes, in this case I am legally entitled to this, given that by subjecting me to collective punishment, the admin may have caused me tangible and irreparable harm in terms of my ability to get a refund for the mismatched LED light tube!) 2601:646:8082:BA0:D5AF:2A0E:E1D8:F16 (talk) 23:57, 20 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, this discussion is NOT closed, and will NOT be until I get a relevant answer! And I do NOT have to be civil when subjected to tortious actions by some of your admins -- or, rather, pointing out the illegality of such actions and demanding disciplinary action DOES NOT constitute "being uncivil"! (And yes, in this case these ARE tortious, as I have pointed out above -- they HAVE caused me to suffer monetary loss, and therefore the admin in question IS legally liable for this loss!) 2601:646:8082:BA0:D5AF:2A0E:E1D8:F16 (talk) 12:44, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 21

Alcohol consumption for teens

First sorry for my mediocre English. I'm a 15 y. o. youngster, and I am allowed to drink since 14 (normal in my family and country). Recently, my country wants to abolish the special status of 14-16 y. o. (They can publicly drink currently with their parents, after 16 alone anyway). I'm turning 16 soon anyway, but I just feel tricked by the state now. (I'm asking this here as I don't think it's appropriate to ask my peers or adults, as I'm not a permanent complainer or some idiot like that). I was promised basically freedom from 14 onwards, and that's also basically what I received. All I have to wait for now is voting rights and the right to drive, nothing more (oh, and work, but I'm less excited for that one…). But people on the internet, with the new debate in my country now, are now making obscenely annoying comments on alcohol consumption by teens. It's super-normalised here, everyone experienced it (unless you grew up with functionary parents—I'm sorry for you in that case), but the people on social media want to change social norms and pretend it's not normal. They basically ignore reality for it to change, and that's just annoying. Can't they just do that sanely though, like "I would like things that are currently totally normal to become less normal, here's my arguments, you support whatever you want! (:". I mean, some literally want child protection to start investigating families bc 14+ y. o., gasp, drank a glass of alcohol!!!!?!. It's just annoying. Personally, I feel encouraged to drink more if they tell me not to, but if they tell me "you're basically an adult, I don't care about you, it's your fault", I feel encouraged to stop. Is that just me? Bc I feel like most people my age are like that. I just drank around 10 times since my fourteenth birthday (I drank in public that day, and at home even more). I just do it very occasionally if I feel extremely bad—and I think this is good for me, just like the occasional joint is too. Consuming it for the taste would make me addicted to a poisonous product, consuming it everyday or even every week/month would make me an alcoholic too. So, since I'm not a (no offence) stupid idiot (I mean that for myself, I'm not thinking abt others when saying that), I won't do stupid idiot stuff like become an alcoholic. Problem solved. But, not really, as all these internet people are starting to make me doubt, but all they have is arguments which irl only really hateful ppl (stereotypical functionaries, 18 y. o./adults who act all snobbish about their inexistant "maturity" and their macho idea of "authority", obsessive psychiatrists, etc.) would say. And often the people on there are easily describable as "internet idiots", not something you often find irl. Do you have any non-functionary-like arguments to tell me to NEVER drink, would you recommend me to drink a little like I do now (again, only extremely rarely and to tell myself that I'm still free and allowed to do it), to stop caring about what ppl on the internet think, or something else? Pls don't bring arguments like "you're in development", that's exactly what some Mr. Schlibrowski would say, you know, with his big costume and stupid look: the truth is I have consciousness now and that's enough for me to decide. I'm talking about purely hard-sciences arguments that go beyond statistics or behaviour analyses (functionary stuff). Regards, 80.187.84.226 (talk) 13:04, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they just want you to wait till you're old enough to drink and drive. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:21, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm old enough here though, and if the new law passes, I'm gonna be old enough in not long once I turn 16. That's beside the point. And don't ppl in what I’m assuming is your country (the USA) drive really young too? Whatever, here I'm legally allowed to drink without parents (from 16) before I'm allowed to drive a vehicle. 80.187.101.189 (talk) 15:29, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Drunken adults behind the wheel are dangerous enough. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:51, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly comments like that are refreshing… So much toxic stuff on the internet. I'm trying to limit my screen time anyway, and I'm having difficulty sorting the bullshit/obsessive stuff from the interesting stuff when I use it. I literally try to avoid staying at home at all costs bc the internet is just sooo different and toxic compared to real ppl (friends family teacher). Thats also why i asked on Wikipedia. 80.187.101.189 (talk) 18:12, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia reference desk is really not the place to look for life advice. We don't have that one specifically called out with medical advice and legal advice as ones we won't answer, but it's not really what we're here for. I could also tell you that you probably shouldn't be looking to random strangers on the Internet for life advice, Wikipedia or not, but that would be shading into life advice itself, so I won't. --Trovatore (talk) 18:34, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

what is a 'functionary'? VergilSparkles (talk) 20:04, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I meant a Beamter. I mean some are fine, but I'm more talking about the stereotype than a real one. How do you say that in English? 80.187.101.189 (talk) 20:36, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Beamter"? What does that have to do with underage drinking? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:35, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There's a common stereotype about Beamte being obsessive state ppl which you can't talk to with their weird jargon (it's just a stereotype, so I don't mean everyone is like that; and it's not underage here yet, that's literally what created this situation). 80.187.101.189 (talk) 06:13, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I thought you were trying to say that a Beamter would supply your Jim Beam. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:52, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Obscenely annoying posts on social media elicit more replies than normal posts, which means "the algorithm" is more likely to recommend them to other users, creating an incentive for posters to post obscenely annoying stuff. And then there is also the army of bots trolling the Internet with no aim but to sow confusion and discontent. They are not representative of public opinion.

Such legislation as this proposed change usually contains a provision that avoids already existing rights being affected, so that the change would (in this case) only affect youngsters who have not yet reached the age of 14 at the moment the law takes effect. Is this just one politician who is pushing for this or is the Federal Government on board? And is there an officially proposed text for the amendment to the law (in this case, the Protection of Young Persons Act)?

For someone who agrees with you, see here. ‑‑Lambiam 18:35, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Invasive species

Besides the UGLY AMERICAN, what is one that went west to east DMc75771 (talk) 15:19, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If humans originated in Africa, then most of the human population went from west to east. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:23, 21 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kim Philby? Wrong Way Corrigan? Francis Chichester? Or does "one" imply something not human? If so, how about 'Spanish' Flu? Or the Colorado beetle? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.,195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 01:10, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

In the UK we've had quite enough of your eastern gray squirrels. Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:37, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If that's the question, there's also signal crayfish and common water hyacinth. Card Zero (talk) 08:18, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Canadian pond weed and Canada geese too (UK).

Perhaps also rabbits in Australia (depending which way around the ships went)? Alansplodge (talk) 08:52, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly, the First Fleet first went south-west from England, across the Atlantic to the Canary Islands then down to Rio for reprovisioning, then more or less east to Australia, via the Cape. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 09:04, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, to pick up the Westerlies. Alansplodge (talk) 09:09, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There's about half a dozen American crayfish species on the list of invasive alien species of Union concern. That's the list of species that the EU would like to see eradicated. There are more American species on the list, like Cabomba caroliniana (a waterplant), Gambusia affinis (a freshwater fish), Lampropeltis getula (a snake) and Procyon lotor (the raccoon). PiusImpavidus (talk) 13:15, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the suggestions and links. DMc75771 (talk) 16:47, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I once saw a Briton gripe about American grey squirrels, in response to an American gripe about starlings. —Tamfang (talk) 23:43, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 22

Wikipedia selling books as merchandise

Does Wikipedia sell books as merchandise? If not, please explain why so? SellingPoint15 (talk) 11:18, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do you mean books that are just printed copies of Wikipedia articles? I can think of lots of reasons, if so. Articles are constantly changing, so there will never be a definitive version. Most people prefer to read articles on their computer or phone. If you want a printed copy you can just print one off yourself. Lastly, the Wikimedia Foundation, which runs Wikipedia, is a non-profit organisation, and has more than enough money already. --Viennese Waltz 12:36, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia doesn't sell anything. The Wikimedia Foundation, which manages Wikipedia's software and infrastructure, is a donation-supported not-for-profit organization. It sells only a very limited amount of merchandise to help support itself. Why should Wikipedia sell any merchandise, or books specifically? What books would you expect it to sell?

If you're referring to bound editions of Wikipedia, well... these resources may be enlightening:

Also, since Wikipedia articles are constantly changing, the question of what versions of articles would be included in a bound or other "frozen" volume has been a contentious topic since the origin of the now long-defunct Wikipedia 1.0 project that initially proposed to create a CD version.

-- Avocado (talk) 12:43, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Um ... Wikipedia enables readers of its online encyclopedia to create collections of Wikipedia articles and to order these directly as high-quality print-to-order books. 10% of the gross sales cost from books sold in this way go to the Wikimedia Foundation. Card Zero (talk) 15:15, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"Wikipedia doesn't sell anything." Apart from its own ass, which it regularly whores to anyone with fat pockets. —Fortuna, imperatrix 13:04, 24 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

To be precise, these books are not sold by Wikipedia itself (which has no legal personality), but by the private company PediaPress GmbH in partnership with the Wikimedia Foundation. See Wikipedia:Buying Wikipedia articles in print or another form. ‑‑Lambiam 15:35, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

And you have to basically "design your own". -- Avocado (talk) 15:55, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Avocado @Fortuna imperatrix mundi @Card Zero @Lambiam @Viennese Waltz @Wardog Design my own? That’s great for me. I’m extremely familiar with PediaPress, but I have never purchased one. For PediaPress, I can select on existing ones, such as science, astronomy, and culture, made popular. And I would love to flip these pages, like in the old days. But however, I never got to experience reading PediaPress books, unlike other books made by different publishers, in which I experienced reading any of them. SellingPoint15 (talk) 10:44, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I once got gifted a book (which fortunately had been bought for cheap from a second-hand shop) that turned out to have the text entirely copied from Wikipedia. (The writing style had made me suspicious, but the proof was that they forgot to remove one of the [citation needed] tags. Iapetus (talk) 12:46, 24 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Native American tribes not having foreign relations

Hi anyone, is there a definite reason on why do Native American tribe not have foreign relations with other international countries, despite the tribal sovereignty? We have one, such as Native American and Irish interactions, and the Navajo in international cooperation too. Another reason is why do tribal nations both not allowed and unable to issue currency, nor declare war on other tribes? How though? Furthermore, does the international world recognize tribal sovereignty states as independent countries? Good if you answer my own question. 107.116.89.118 (talk) 11:39, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Native American tribes are not sovereign in the sense that countries are sovereign. They are considered domestic dependent nations within the United States, not foreign nations. They are more like states of the United States in terms of what they can and cannot do. Native American recognition in the United States mentions that like states, tribes cannot declare war, engage in foreign relations, or coin money. Pinguinn 🐧 11:57, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Lambiam @Pinguinn Have you read the Native American and Irish interactions article? It shows an example of a relationship between these two. 107.116.89.118 (talk) 13:07, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Those are mostly friendly visits and exchanges of gifts. For the purposes of US law, "foreign relations" is defined much more narrowly. The Compact Clause defines it as enter[ing] into any Agreement or Compact with a foreign power, ie. treaties, trade agreements, embassies, etc. I believe this is the same definition of foreign relations used for Native American tribes and nothing in the Native American and Irish interactions article would count as an agreement or compact. Pinguinn 🐧 01:52, 24 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

A vaguely analogous UK example would be the Isle of Man. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 16:51, 22 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The Isle of Man Bank issues its own currency (coin and paper), though it is equivalent to sterling, and not legal tender off the island.

I thought that the Native American tribes had some sort of diplomatic relations with similar indigenous groups around the world? And perhaps they don't care to do it within a Western/colonial diplomatic framework? -- Verbarson ^talk_edits 20:31, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For example, see World Indigenous Games. There is List of Indigenous rights organizations, but many of these are part of, or set up and run by, non-indigenous governments and NGOs. -- Verbarson ^talk_edits 06:58, 24 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Verbarson Isle of Man? What about the Iroquois or Haudenosaunee? It has their own lacrosse team on World Games. 107.116.89.118 (talk) 10:56, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The World Games are not considered a foreign power. ‑‑Lambiam 21:35, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 23

List of videoconferencing platforms

Where can I find the list of videoconferencing platforms, such as Zoom meetings? YourMadeZoom (talk) 13:15, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Right here: List_of_video_telecommunication_services_and_product_brands 196.50.199.218 (talk) 13:21, 23 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 24

Number of users on social media

Could anyone find a diagram or a statistic on where could I find the number of users on any social media platform or website, such as YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook? Userbasoork07 (talk) 18:53, 24 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Userbasoork07 That would be our List of social platforms with at least 100 million active users. Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:19, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 25

California Independence Proposal

Was there ever a serious proposal for California to become an independent country after it became part of the United States? If so, what were the motivations and what happened to those movements? 107.116.89.118 (talk) 06:47, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Have you seen Partition and secession in California, and particularly the California independence section of that article?-Gadfium (talk) 06:52, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes! 107.116.89.118 (talk) 08:09, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Difference between American and British Literature

Hello, would you please explain the difference between British and American Literature and how did American Literature evolve in the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries, tell me about it? Giver058854687 (talk) 09:58, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This would probably need an entire textbook. You might try reading the articles English Literature, beginning with Section 5.2, and American literature; we also have British literature, which overlaps with much of English literature. See also Great American Novel, a concept with no prominent parallel in British literature. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 03:21, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Gregorian Calendar

Can someone explain how the Gregorian calendar correction in 1582 affected dates in countries that adopted it later, like Britain in 1752? Specifically, how do historians reconcile dates across different calendar systems? XtraMateSo2 (talk) 11:13, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how historians reconcile the dates, but different countries skipped a bunch of days in different years, when they adopted the calendar. Fwiw, there's a plot point in Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco that plays with this fact. -- Avocado (talk) 12:30, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Adoption of the Gregorian calendar has details -- Verbarson ^talk_edits 15:54, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ideally, when talking about British events between 1582 and 1752, a writer quoting a particular date will make it clear which calendar they are using. This can be done in-text or via a footnote, or in a general note at the start or end of the book. That way, readers can do their own conversions if necessary. Many writers do this. Sadly, many do not, and this leads to confusion particularly when the text is a source for a different piece of writing.

Wikipedia has had to adopt a policy where dates shown in our articles use whatever calendar is used in the source for a particular section of the text. And sometimes it's not possible to establish just which calendar the source is using. Because our articles are written by different editors at different times, using different sources, and working on different sections of an article, we can get articles that mix Julian and Gregorian calendar dates. This is far from ideal, but it's unavoidable when the sources haven't done their due diligence about their dates but are otherwise considered reliable sources. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 20:57, 25 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

One convention is to append "O.S." (Old Style) or "N.S." (New Style) to a date to indicate whether it is in the Julian or Gregorian calendar respectively. See our article Old Style and New Style dates. CodeTalker (talk) 17:20, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That works but, as I say, sometimes we just don't know which it is. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:17, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

There is also the question of which year a given date in a historical document is in the present style. In England, the day following Die Mercurii, 24 Martii, 1646^[1] (Wednesday, 24th of March, 1646) was Die Jovis, 25 Martii, 1647^[2] (Thursday, 25th of March, 1647). Was the first date our present 1647-03-24, or the second our present 1646-03-25? ‑‑Lambiam 16:18, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If we would all just agree that "the New Year will always now begin upon the twenty-fifth of March when Sauron fell", as Gandalf said, we wouldn't have that problem. CodeTalker (talk) 17:54, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 26

Reason on Black Hebrew Israelites adding Seminole Indians after North American Indians

Hello users, I’m really wondering on the reason on why would Black Hebrew Israelites add Seminole Indians after North America Indians. I definitely know they all of these groups are both marginalized and oppressed throughout American history. Why would the BHIs include Hispanics/Latinos and Native Americans due to the low member count? Is there a reason behind this, and how did they include the ethnic groups based on a tribe? This is Seminole Indians listed below North American Indians. Thank you for this. HavingATea303 (talk) 11:12, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

(Courtesy link: Black Hebrew Israelites. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 00:58, 27 September 2025 (UTC))[reply]

Hello there, I showed an image of the BHI poster, but please explain the reasoning behind it. HavingATea303 (talk) 10:16, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Weather change rate and climate

How often do these weather events change, based on its rate and climate? ClimateFolding1507 (talk) 12:33, 26 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Your question is unclear. You have linked to Weather events during wars, which obviously has two independent components – natural phenomena and human political states – which have little if any causal correlations, so what kind of 'change' are you asking about? In "its rate and climate", what does "its" (singular) refer to in relation to "events" (plural)? Can you rethink and rephrase your question? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 00:55, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can safely say that warriors have to work around the weather conditions in a given situation. The weather doesn't get changed by warfare. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:58, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, large scale military inundations, as practised since the early modern period, and destruction of reservoir dams like the Kakhovka Dam can turn large areas of land into water or water into land, locally affecting temperature swings, cloud cover, fog and precipitation. Large scale destruction of forests by burning or chemical agents leading to decreased evapotranspiration has a similar effect. Fire can be used to disperse fog; see Fog Investigation and Dispersal Operation. Cloud seeding can be used to make rain in one place or avoid it somewhere else. Closure of airspace for commercial flights reduces contrails, causing a small but significant temperature drop on the surface. Unintentional, sometimes even intentional weather modification is part of warfare. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:44, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but these are the results of human actions, some military, that effect local climates, whereas the OP appears to be asking something (not sure what) about short-term weather events not so caused which happen to have occurred during wartime. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 17:01, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I failed to parse OP's question. I mostly responded to the statement "The weather doesn't get changed by warfare." PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:49, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While only the OP can clarify the intention, one interpretation is: How common is it for weather events to affect the course or outcome of a war? (If so, the question is probably unanswerable by lack of an objective measure of the importance of an event, which, it seems to me, requires one to also consider the what if scenario of the event not occurring.) ‑‑Lambiam 15:33, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Baseball Bugs @Lambiam Intention for the link: Weather forecasting, Climate change, Weather, and History of natural science. ClimateFolding1507 (talk) 20:42, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 27

History and Timeline of Music

On the History of music, would you please help me on the sorting these era of the 20th century on the evolution of music? The 20th century is just one period in terms of music. Also, is there an era of 21st century, since it evolved so much in the late 20th century and early 21st century, due to the fact that, the technology had progressed in the 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s? Thank you. Gold or Lurk (talk) 10:07, 27 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

That article is pretty horribly uneven. A topic like that is hell to write an article for and I'd suggest that this is not an example of our finest work. A piece about 20th century music that includes John Cage, but not, say, John Lennon, Johnny Cash, or John Williams is, at best, a little skewed. We don't yet have an article on 21st-century music (that link takes you to a tiny section of the 21st century article). If classical music is your thing, we do have an article at 21st-century classical music. Our article at 2000s in the music industry also seems germane. Matt Deres (talk) 14:45, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 28

Roots of Silicon Valley

I'm researching the early development of Silicon Valley and am looking for reliable sources that detail how the region transitioned from an agricultural economy to a tech innovation hub. Specifically, what roles did Stanford University and military research funding play in the growth of the tech industry there during the mid-20th century? Any recommendations for books, articles, or primary sources would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance! UnityDecit555 (talk) 11:24, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Did you look at the sources in our Silicon Valley article? There are 146 references and 25 books and newspaper articles listed there, plus some external links that might be of interest. The History section has subsections that specifically discuss the military and Stanford University. CodeTalker (talk) 16:43, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hewlett-Packard is another good starting point. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 18:49, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Impact of mass-produced, and consumer goods

During the period of massive economic growth and industrialization in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (the Gilded Age into the Progressive Era) in the United States, how did the rise of mass-produced, branded consumer goods, such as soap, breakfast cereal, or bottled beverages, fundamentally change the American public's concepts of cleanliness, health, and personal responsibility, moving beyond basic hygiene to an expectation of standardized, commercialized "wellness?" Userbasicallynot (talk) 23:00, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"We don't do your homework for you". AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:06, 28 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Because they were cheaper. Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:30, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The very important topic of advertising is missing from this. 4.17.97.234 (talk) 11:19, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The traditional approach was to merely advertize the availability of the product, and next to exalt its superior qualities (or just to assert, Nothing is better than X). But then advertizing found a formula that played on the consumer's insecurities, like suggesting to mothers they were not good mothers if they didn't give their growing children the most healthy and nutritious (viz. the advertizer's) products, or that by using these they could be assured of the happiness and gratefulness of their children. Or, to anxious teenagers, that, ugly as they were, they could turn themselves into princes and princesses by using just the right products. And so on. (Citations needed.) It was honed to perfection in the mid-twentieth century and the formula is still in use. ‑‑Lambiam 07:59, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 29

Why is this called Swastika, not Hakenkreuz?

Hello there, according to the talk page of Swastika, why is this term, common name, instead of the Hakenkreuz? How do we know that this is a longstanding practice starting about 50 years before Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in English Wikipedia? Could Hakenkreuz be a English loanword, similar to Swastika, which is borrowed from the Sanskrit language? Mannymations12 (talk) 23:50, 29 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewing Newspapers.com (pay site), it seems that "swastika" was in common use several decades before the term "Hakenkreuz" first turned up. A close equivalent in English to describe the Nazi version was "twisted cross". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:16, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See for example here, in a book from 1834, or here, in a US government publication from 1895. The term is borrowed from Sanskrit, which was a dead language already some 20 centuries before Hitler was born. The meaning in Sanskrit was something like "lucky charm", applied to many things which included, but was not reserved to, the symbol 卐. See on Wiktionary the entry for स्वस्तिक. ‑‑Lambiam 08:23, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, the emblem was already well known in the Anglosphere before Hitler and his chums got their hands on it; see Western use of the swastika in the early 20th century. Alansplodge (talk) 16:00, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Alansplodge: I'm not going to discuss Anglosphere, but the 'Poland' section of the article you link above mentions the Boreyko coat of arms' dating back to ~1400, and the 'Latvia' section says The Latvian left-facing swastika or Thunder Cross dates back to Bronze Age. Both those countries' areas are in Europe but probably not in Anglosphere. --CiaPan (talk) 20:37, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but we're discussing why it's called "swastika" in English. Alansplodge (talk) 17:10, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Various versions of 'the emblem' have been used widely in Europe and Asia for thousands of years, and there will be many different names for it in many languages in many eras. When translating particular mentions of it from another language (perhaps of another time) into English, the name for it most commonly used in English at the time of the translation will naturally be used, perhaps also with a literal translation into English of the term being translated.

British heraldry traditionally used the vocabulary of Norman-French (because it was invented when the Normans had recently conquered England), so would have used terms like Croix gammée or croix haquée, but the device is so rare in British heraldry that the mis-read term fylfot was mistakenly adopted for it in the 19th century. I only know of one family, Chamberlayne (from the Southampton area), that has it in their arms. It happens that I live close to a pub called The Chamberlayne Arms which, some years ago during a refurbishment, received a new sign featuring those arms with fylfots: it was discreetly replaced with a written sign a couple of years later. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 02:27, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen lucky coins from the 1920s (minted in US or UK) that had the swastika on them as one of several lucky signs. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:19, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

OED has swastika from 1823, hakenkreuz only from 1922. Hakenkreuz is listed only in the Nazi sense, swastika both in its original religious sense and the Nazi one. DuncanHill (talk) 19:28, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think I've ever seen Hakenkreuz used in actual running text in English, only as the German name of the symbol. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:23, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Should you desire to see such a use, look here. ‑‑Lambiam 10:15, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

While the overall work is in English, those usages come from a character who is German and is using German words to describe German things. Not exactly what I was looking for. This is just the common trope of immigrant characters peppering their speech with words from their native languages. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 11:15, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The fictional character has lived in England before the war and is proficient in English. One may assume, though, that his interior monologues (which are presented in third-person form) as well as dialogues with other fictional German characters are in German. But (as is usual) the author of the novel has conveniently written these products of his creative imagination in English – not translated from German, since no German version ever existed. These passages are not peppered with Germanisms in this novel; it is all grammatically and idiomatically proper standard English, except for terns of address (Fraulein) and a few terms like Reichsfuhrer and Wehrmacht. The lack of typographical distinction (such as italics or quote signs), the uncapitalized rendering and the English plural form hakenkreuzes instead of the German Hakenkreuzen all argue against code-switching. ‑‑Lambiam 09:53, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not the absolute smoking gun I was looking for, but you've convinced me that it is close enough. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:42, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

September 30

Question about economics and finance

How have the prices of common consumer goods (like milk, bread, or gasoline) changed over the past 50 years in the United States, adjusted for inflation? PriceMaker36996 (talk) 23:55, 30 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Consumer price index in the United States does not directly and specifcally answer the details of your question, but may provide some leads to follow. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 02:31, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

All the data are here: [[3]]. DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 03:27, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

October 1

Recent music genres

Are there any recent music genres emerged in 21st century and 1990s? Gold or Lurk (talk) 23:28, 1 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll nominate Symphonic metal for the 1990s. Although there were isolated precursors, perhaps even stretching back to Deep Purple's 1968 Concerto for Group and Orchestra (I don't think The Moody Blues' 1967 Days of Future Passed can be categorised as metal), the genre was not recognised as such until the 1990s. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 02:28, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

K-pop. 196.50.199.218 (talk) 08:07, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Many, many. Post-rock emerged in the 1990s; Trap music as currently understood appeared in 1999; Grime music emerged in London in the early 2000s, as did Dubstep...

For more information, try reading the various '[decade] in music' articles, such as 1990s in music. AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 08:50, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. Gold or Lurk (talk) 10:13, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

October 2

Fifth Liners

In The New Limerick (1977) by G. Legman, this is № 502:

In Chicago a lady named Anna

On her torso wore just a bandanna.

When she met some Fifth Liners

(They're much worse than Shriners)

She was last seen sprinting through Montana.

Casual searching yields no likely meanings for Fifth Liners. Is it a Chicago thing? —Tamfang (talk) 01:09, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is the last line as printed? I can't make it fit the appropriate scansion, since 'sprinting ' stresses the first syllable. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 02:33, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It's not the only one in the book with strange scansion. —Tamfang (talk) 04:05, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at Newspapers.com (pay site), evidently the term "Fifth Liner" refers to someone who constructs Limericks, maybe especially someone who comes up with the punch line. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:45, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, the assistant that Edward Lear didn't have. (In many of his limericks, unless I'm thinking of someone else, the last line largely echoes the first.) —Tamfang (talk) 04:07, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. Lear for some reason is also often credited with inventing limericks, which Legman went to great lengths to disprove by the order of centuries, though he is "credited" with popularizing the namby-pamby clean limericks you can print in English school books. Matt Deres (talk) 18:40, 2 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do Canadian schoolbooks regularly include obscene limericks, then? Are children there brought up to recite The Ballad of Eskimo Nell? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.193.153.108 (talk) 01:36, 3 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

October 3