Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive195
Neutrality
[edit]| Only autoconfirmed users can file AE requests plus the request has no merit. --NeilN talk to me 16:26, 23 July 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Neutrality[edit]
The editor is deliberately introducing bias into a number of political articles. In this case, a complete revamp of this article (and this article alone among the then-potential VP candidates) was performed prior to the DNC revelation of their selection. The editor acted on this article alone with clear prior knowledge of very closely held political information. The editor was even noticed, by name, in the media as editing this particular candidate's article prior to the information being released. Given this evidence and their edits themselves, there is an extremely high likelihood that the editor has a significant COI. User:NeilN has requested additional diffs showing the reverts. The given diffs are the reintroduction of material removed in prior edits. I will add diffs showing the prior removal(s) if needed, please clarify.
Discussion concerning Neutrality[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Neutrality[edit]Statement by Strongjam[edit]Just a note that only autoconfirmed users can file AE requests. Normally this request would've just been removed, but since NeilN has already commented I'd rather leave that to an admin. — Strongjam (talk) 16:17, 23 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Neutrality[edit]
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TH1980
[edit]| No action taken at this time and request withdrawn by the filer. Both parties are advised to keep their distance from one another in the future. Seraphimblade Talk to me 00:35, 25 July 2016 (UTC) | ||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning TH1980[edit]
Withdrawn. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:04, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
@Lord Roem: Look at the diffs more closely: The "very indirect" accusation was made shortly after the thread was opened, and then two days later he made another, more explicit accusation against me. He had several days to realize the discussion he was hosting and participating in was an IBAN-violation. The fact that he has been monitoring my edits since at least February means it was not a good-faith mistake. Here, he tried to spin this as me following his edits, despite the myriad possible ways I could have noticed this during the several days the thread was live. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:19, 22 July 2016 (UTC) (Edited 13:38, 22 July 2016 (UTC))
Discussion concerning TH1980[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by TH1980[edit]I do not control the threads that other users post on my talk page, but after I accidentally mentioned Hijiri88's name there, I realized I had made a mistake and quickly deleted first the comment and then the entire thread.[3][4] I only mentioned Hijiri88 in one comment, and I deleted that comment within hours, before anyone was likely to have seen it. Hijiri88's quickness to report me over a comment I deleted so quickly shows that he is following my edits far too closely. Hjiri88 also has an IBAN with Catflap, and during a recent arbitration enforcement, Hijiri88 was "instructed to stop following Catflap's edits".[5] Hijiri88 has no reason to be checking every edit that I delete so quickly and reporting me for them, in the same way that he was told not to follow Catflap's edits. At any rate, following this report I took a look at Hijiri88's edits and noticed that he has mentioned my name on Wikipedia as well, like here for instance.[6] If my promptly deleted comment is sanctionable, Hijiri88 should also be sanctioned for commenting on me.TH1980 (talk) 01:44, 22 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning TH1980[edit]
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Herr Gruber
[edit]| Both Herr Gruber (talk · contribs) and Felsic2 (talk · contribs) are warned against further battleground and disruptive behavior in the gun control topic area. Herr Gruber is reminded to remain civil even in heated disputes. No other action taken. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:05, 27 July 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Herr Gruber[edit]
Herr Gruber has repeatedly posted personal attacks, cast aspersions, and failed to assume good faith. Prior to warning about DS:
These diffs are from after I'd asked him to stop attacking me personally and after I'd alerted him to the DS.
Herr Gruber has tried to get me to stop editing gun articles over and over, making a variety of accusations of POV-pushing and incompetence. His contributions to Talk:SIG MCX were described by @RunnyAmiga: as part of a "pile-on" that was "fucking gross". His personal comments at DRN contributed to derailing that attempt at dispute resolution,[7][8] despite efforts by @Robert McClenon: Herr Gruber is well aware that making repeated insults to an editor's ability is obnoxious, as he's said so himself.[9] So he's engaged in behavior that he knows is obnoxious and has explictly tried to get me to stop editing a topic. Furthermore, he has labelled mainstream sources like "Newsweek" as unreliable[10] and uses sources that are obviously inappropriate,[11] all while complaining about my contention that we should use the best available sources.[12] It is very difficult to work in this environment. Note: @Drmies: and @Bishonen: have enforced this DS on an editor concerning the AR-15 article recently. Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions/Log/2016#Gun_control While none of the articles in this filing are directly about Gun control, they would seem to fall within the "broadly construed" umbrella. Felsic2 (talk) 17:50, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Herr Gruber[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Herr Gruber[edit]The key problem here is that all of these statements are true. This user is a political POV-pusher who makes constant politically slanted edits to firearm articles which often amount to outright vandalism, wikilawyers, ignores consensus, and ignores rebuttals to restate points that have already been addressed. Their edits are a checklist of current US anti-gun political talking points (completely US-centric, associating mass shootings with AR15s, assault weapons, redefining "assault rifle" to include semi-autos even though no authoritative source argues that's appropriate, etc). Their edits are extremely partisan and confrontational in tone (eg repeatedly accusing other editors of "censorship" over failure to include certain information) This editor should stop editing on this topic as they very clearly have a strong POV regarding it along with very little background knowledge on the subject in question, at least until they expand their knowledge of opposing perspectives and general firearms knowledge a little. Herr Gruber (talk) 18:45, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
While I don't think this really helps, it has been requested:
The fact that going through his diffs makes it hard to find any edit which is not somehow related to gun control is also fair evidence of this. Felsic2 was also the subject of a previous ArbCom request over his own conduct such as charming edit summaries and things like this. He continues in this spirit with things like comments in his "gun use" essay, which directly conflates disagreeing with him with censorship ("Gun articles are skewed when information is censored") insinuations of conspiracy ("something fishy is going on if we include this but can't include notorious uses of the firearm"), suggests nobody can seriously argue with him and technical information about firearms is boring, etc. Statement by Robert McClenon[edit]I was pinged, but I don't have a dog in this fight. I was asked to try to arrange for moderated discussion. However, moderated discussion is an effort to resolve content disputes, and participants must comment on content, not contributors, and the editors wouldn't stop blaming each other. I haven't researched this long enough to know where the fault lies, but it is now a conduct dispute, and can be sorted out more effectively here than at WP:ANI. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:27, 25 July 2016 (UTC) Note by The Wordsmith[edit]I edit in the area of American Politics and sometimes stray into gun issues, so I'm recusing myself from this request and will not comment on its merits. The WordsmithTalk to me 20:32, 25 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by Cullen328[edit]Herr Gruber in recent days has entered into an alliance with a tendentious IP editor at Talk: Gun show loophole, an article clearly covered by discretionary sanctions. To me, those two editors plus a brand new disruptive and recently blocked editor seem to be trying to reshape a Good article to conform to their POV, starting out with an aggressive campaign to delete an image. The IP editor has been blocked for disruptive editing. Herr Gruber's recent editing pattern raises serious concerns, in my opinion. I encourage a closer look. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:54, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Gaijin42[edit]While Gruber's tone and behavior may or may not be an issue I have never interacted with him significantly, so I cannot comment. Felsic's behavior however definitely is an issue. Most of these diffs are somewhat stale, because I have not been as active in the GC area recently. But they do serve to show a pattern of long term behavior and POV pushing in the area. Previously trouted regarding incivility in the topic area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive189#Felsic2 WP:POINT makes edits that even their own edit summary admits are "absurd" to make a point. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms_in_the_United_States&diff=725772043&oldid=725771847 WP:GAME nitpicks of sources https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms_in_the_United_States&diff=726090117&oldid=726087908 Consistently responding with snark and battleground attitude https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms_in_the_United_States&diff=prev&oldid=726833304 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms_in_the_United_States&diff=prev&oldid=726833589 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:National_Rifle_Association/Archive_3#Criticism_-_is_that_all_there_is.3F WP:GAME complete reversal of interpretation of policies and guidelines depending on if it fits their POV. Deletes content sourced to press releases specifically because they are sourced to press releases, but in very next edit (3 min) adds information sourced to press releases. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Friends_of_NRA&diff=prev&oldid=725738838 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=High-capacity_magazine&diff=prev&oldid=725739186 Snarky/battleground comments, WP:ICANTHEARYOU, ultimately forcing an RFC that revived almost universal support against his position. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:National_Rifle_Association&diff=prev&oldid=711809286 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:National_Rifle_Association&diff=prev&oldid=711436819 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:National_Rifle_Association&diff=prev&oldid=711427469 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:National_Rifle_Association&diff=prev&oldid=711428514 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:National_Rifle_Association&diff=prev&oldid=711428688 Talk:National_Rifle_Association/Archive_3#Civil_Rights.2FLiberties_Org_Categorization. Note that I made an involved SNOW close on the RFC, but that close was later confirmed by an uninvolved editor from ANRFC. Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Requests_for_closure/Archive_21#Talk:National_Rifle_Association.23Civil_Rights.2FLiberties_Org_Categorization Insistence that a LaPierre gaffe, which is not discussed in any secondary sources, must be discussed in equal depth to a gaffe by Carolyn McCarthy which has been discussed extensively in secondary sources for multiple years. Talk:Carolyn_McCarthy#Tucker_gaffe Talk:Wayne_LaPierre#Gaffes [[21]] Gaijin42 (talk) 14:44, 26 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Herr Gruber[edit]
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Debresser
[edit]| Debresser (talk · contribs) is banned from the topic of the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed, for three months. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:26, 27 July 2016 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Debresser[edit]
BLP issues:
N/A
While the second revert is just outside of 24 hrs, the apparent gaming of the 1RR to restore contested material in a BLP merits attention I think. At present, the talk page section covering the material re-inserted in these reverts shows 3 editors agreeing that Debresser's material violates WP:UNDUE and yet Debresser has edit-warred the material into the article without modification. Repeatedly dismissing editors who disagree with him as "POV editors" and deciding that because he disagrees with them he may ignore them. This is a BLP and WP:BLP specifies that contested material stay out without consensus, as does WP:ONUS. Neither of those facts seems to impress Debresser, as the 24+2 hr revert above shows. Not one person has agreed with Debresser's position, and the edit-warring in a BLP should not be acceptable.
@The Wordsmith: I thought of it like the 3RR, but fair enough. Ive added the discretionary sanctions remedy to the request. The issue is the edit-warring against a substantial majority (unanimity in fact) of talk page participants in a BLP. If discretionary sanctions dont cover that then forgive me for bringing this here. nableezy - 18:32, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
As far as DR/N, I was repeatedly personally attacked by Debresser, I made one complaint about it and my complaint is what was hidden. I asked for content to be discussed, but Debresser refused to leave personal issues out of the discussion. I really dont feel I should be admonished for not willing to have to wear a muzzle while another editor is attacking me. nableezy - 00:08, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Debresser[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Debresser[edit]I think it is about time WP:AE put a stop to attempts by Nableezy to discredit editors who disagree with his POV by posting bogus reports here. There was no violation.[23][24] The edits speak for themselves.[25][26] So what does Nableezy do? He calls it "gaming the system by making edits 25 hours removed". The truth is that Nableezy and Spesis II are systematically trying to remove from Mahmoud Abbas unfavorable information.[27][28][29][30] First they used the WP:ARBPIA3#500/30 argument. They when I, an 8 year editor with about 90k edits, make the same edit (with improvements), he tries to say sources are not reliable, when they are, or when good sources are readily available (see [31] and Talk:Mahmoud_Abbas#Unreliable_sources). They he tries to say it is recentism (see [32] and Talk:Mahmoud_Abbas#WP:RECENTISM). Then he sees an outside opinion that it is undue,[33] so he plays that card too.[34] If he thinks it is undue, he could have rewritten it in shorter form, but all he has done is remove the paragraph altogether (see also further, that suggestions for a shorter version have been made, but still he reverts). In other words, Nableezy and Spesis II (whose POV is even more pronounced and who is, unfortunately, less a man of civilized discussion than Nableezy) try to fight this simple, well-sourced, neutrally worded and relevant paragraph by all means possible, in their POV efforts to censor this page. Please notice, that when that same uninvolved editor proposed a compromise,[35] I agreed,[36] but Nableezy rejected the compromise based on his personal vendetta against me.[37] I tried to resolve the issue at WP:DRN (see Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Mahmoud_Abbas.23WP:RECENTISM), but Nableezy sabotaged that too.[38] I have recently posted at WP:BLPN (see Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Mahmoud_Abbas, to seek opinions from other editors, perhaps I am wrong with my arguments, but Nableezy has not yet posted there. I have seen Nableezy at work a lot, his POV is well-evident, but we have managed to reach many compromises, for which I respect him, and we are at good terms.[39] Even yesterday I was not afraid to change my opinion and agree with him on another issue.[40]. He has reported me here before recently (see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive193#Debresser), also on flimsy grounds, and no action was taken. I would like to ask WP:AE to call upon this editor to stop censoring this article, stop his tendentious POV editing, stop misusing this forum as his tool to fight editors with different opinions, and stop seeing Wikipedia as a battlefield. Debresser (talk) 14:02, 15 July 2016 (UTC) Update Nableezy made another edit on this article, pushing his point of view and implementing a suggestion without consensus, while misusing the fact that he knows I can't revert, and in full disregard for my call to discuss at WP:BLPN, as well as WP:CONSENSUS, WP:EDIT WAR and the outcome of the discussion.[41] I repeat my call to sanction this editor. Debresser (talk) 15:47, 15 July 2016 (UTC) @Lord Roem I agree with what you say. I do have a question for you. I took an active part in the talkpage discussion. I posted on WP:DRN, and on WP:BLPN, and it wasn't me who rejected the first and did not react to the second. I reverted well after 24 hours, and they weren't even identical reverts. How more am I to take part in discussion before editing an article under dispute to avoid accusations and having me dragged to WP:AE? Today, on this same article, Nableezy made a second revert,[42] 1 day and 14 hours after his previous edit,[43], even though the issue was still disputed on the talkpage. Is that enough time? Debresser (talk) 18:21, 23 July 2016 (UTC) Update 24.7.16: Nableezy calls for another editor to edit war at Mahmoud Abbas in this edit. Please note that only two editors had posted previous, Nishidani on one side and me on the other, and in this post Nableezy says "I think you can restore that material now", as though this has been discussed and consensus has already been reached. Then in his next post he adds that he would make the edit himself, if not that he already made one revert today! And that he'll do it later today. He admits to gaming the system! Not to mention that this is what precisely what he (in bad faith) accuses me of. Likewise he is problematic at Israeli West Bank barrier, where a certain term is being discussed on the talkpage, and Nableezy makes an edit as though there is no discussion.[44] Likewise there he accuses other editors of not having reasons for their oposition,[45], even though those have been stated clearly.[46] In simple words, Nableezy is a tendentious editor, and he is making it impossible and unpleasant for other editors to deal with his edit warring and baseless accusations. Debresser (talk) 16:08, 24 July 2016 (UTC) @Lord Roem Unfortunately, we see this issue diametrically opposite. I see two editors stonewalling, and me bringing arguments. They tricked you into believing it is me stonewalling by demanding I quote from policy. Do I need to quote from policy that information must be relevant and reliably sourced? I don't think so! Also please notice that two editors against one is not a serious claim of consensus, especially when those two editors simply claim consensus without answering my two questions. Because I repeated my two questions at least three times, and never yet received an answer! Please also see the WP:RS/N discussion, where uninvolved editors agree with me that the source is not good, and Nableezy and Nishidani show that they can't stand any opposition by posting long replies to every dissident opinion. That is behavior typical of tendentious editors. Lastly, why would I have WP:OWN issues with a page I only recently started visiting? I surely have no more of a WP:OWN issue than any other editor involved in this conflict. Debresser (talk) 19:52, 26 July 2016 (UTC) Request by Debresser[edit]I ask that Nishidani trim his post of 737 words. I do see some fact misrepresented, but in order that I should be able to understand what the point of his long and tiring timeline is, and be able to reply to the point, it needs to be trimmed. Debresser (talk) 16:32, 19 July 2016 (UTC) Not withdrawn[edit]Nableezy closed this section as "withdrawn".[47] I undid that as an out of process closure. Nableezy is not authorized to close a WP:AE discussion, even if he is the one who started it. In addition, since I have asked for WP:BOOMERANG sanctions against Nableezy here in return, that is something Nableezy can not withdraw. Debresser (talk) 00:12, 22 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by Sir Joseph[edit]I think Nableezy needs to be reminded about what is and what is not acceptable to bring to AE. My feeling is that a "TBAN" on bringing AE actions is suitable at this time. It should not be used as a method of content dispute and it's similar to a legal threat in that Nableezy uses this as a method of stifling edits and discussions. I find this somewhat similar to trying to ban pro-Israeli editors who have less than 500 edits who are making good edits to other articles. Statement by OID[edit]When the man who is head of the Palestinian authority goes before the UN and repeats a claim that Israeli rabbi's are supporting well poisoning, which is picked up by Haaretz, Al Jezera, the NYT and Reuters, claiming it is undue is never going to fly unless it takes up a significant portion of their biography. Israel & Palestine land wars are inherantly part of his position. When he repeats a clearly massively controversial claim, it *will* get significant coverage. Recentism may otherwise be a good argument, except that there have been allegations for years about Israeli poisoning water sources. Abbas is just the latest and most high profile person to repeat them. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:01, 15 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by Nishidani[edit]I watched this go on on Mahmoud Abbas's page, but stayed out because a muckraking investigative journalist who revealed part of how Abbas was probably mislead, perhaps by a hoax, could not be used, since the source is a blog. That Palestinian wells are poisoned in the West Bank by a number of ultra orthodox people from rabbinically guided settlements like Susya is well documented by Israeli observers, but have never been done so on explicit rabbinical authority. The outcry re Abbas ignored this, and another kind of poisoning of the well took place in the press, and it's reflected here. The edit history and the talk page show Debresser disagreeing with Nableezy, Sepsis, Zero, and Drsmoo, initially agreeing with Transporter Man's compromise then going back on his word, only then to reaccept it when a second mediation was proposed.
This was accepted as a fair compromise by Nableezy here, and Debresser here, At this point, both Nableezy and Debresser had accepted Transporter Man’s compromise by the 8th of July. With this acceptance by both of the compromise, the dispute resolution process was rendered superfluous.
He effectively tore up the compromise.
He did not agree because he signaled that TM could put in the consensual version, but that he, Debresser, was not bound by it. Frankly, that shows a total failure to understand the dispute resolution process. He had a watertight compromise underwritten by Nableezy, and ready to be implemented by TM, and said he wouldn’t promise to stick by it.
At this point therefore, you had
TM’s compromise would not stick because Debresser would not undertake to be bound by it so
That is a really, I mean really weird statement by Debresser, for TM’s version, which he approved, states that Abbas retracted.
I.e.Debresser once more was in a minority of one, over a compromise. Nableezy, Zero and Drsmoo had concurred on Zero’s version of TM’s compromise, Sepsis though partly dissatisfied did not veto TM's suggestion. In short, Nableezy wanted everything out, Debresser wanted everything in. Two compromises were tried. Debresser agreed with one, only to backtrack, and rejected the other. Nishidani (talk) 20:46, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Zero[edit]Nishidani wrote "I've never known Nableezy not to adhere to a consensus, whatever it is. I've observed Debresser for years essentially ignoring it, while claiming it backs his edits." That is a fair summary of my experience with those two editors over many months. Zerotalk 13:01, 23 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by Drsmoo[edit]I reject and take offense to User:Nishidani's claim that I am on any "side of the general dispute" and consider it a personal attack. My interest is in improving articles in a neutral way. This whole arbitration request, btw, is baseless. It started with an erroneous edit warring claim and then has shifted to attacking Debresser for having different views (those views being based on improving articles in a neutral way.) In this case, obviously Abbas' statement is notable due to the amount of press coverage it received. Drsmoo (talk) 16:50, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Debresser[edit]
I'm closing this with a short, three-month topic ban. The combination of the editor's conduct on the talk page of topic articles and recently getting close to the 1RR line (reverts are an area of concern, see above), lead me to believe this is the best course of action. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 05:26, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
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David Tornheim
[edit]| David Tornheim is topic banned from the topic of genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them, broadly construed. EllenCT is indefinitely prohibited from discussing the potential motivations of Wikipedia editors, as well as the actions of corporations or persons related to genetically modified organisms, agricultural biotechnology and agricultural chemicals, broadly construed. Jusdafax is warned that making future accusations not supported by evidence is likely to lead to sanctions. Seraphimblade Talk to me 17:28, 28 July 2016 (UTC) | ||||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning David Tornheim[edit]
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#Discretionary_Sanctions Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#1RR_imposed Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#Casting_aspersions
David has previously been warned multiple times at ANI and by admins for battleground, edit warring, aspersions about COI, and general tendentiousness:
Battleground
Edit warring and WP:DRNC 1RR was imposed in this topic, and arbs mentioned that WP:GAMING of it should be handled by DS. That sanction was meant not only to allow quick action on simple violations, but crack down on long-term edit warring behavior that doesn't explicitly cross 1RR. David very often reverts basically demanding in edit summaries that material cannot be changed without their approval even when they don't attempt to open up initial talk page discussion on it, which runs entirely against WP:DRNC.(just need to read edit summaries here)[51][52][53][54] However, when it comes to David's own edits, they pull a full 180 and try to edit war content back in they are already aware didn't have consensus such as this string (some intermediate edits not included).[55][56][57] A recent example of this pettiness is at Atrazine. A new editor added a few wikilinks,[58] but also added one to a reference title that I removed while leaving the others in the body. [59] David again resorted to a revert and ask questions later approach, but was quickly reverted by another editor reiterating that wikilinks in reference templates are problematic.[60] In the meantime, David took to the article talk page to cast aspersions towards me because the specific edit I reverted had a somewhat ranty edit summary[61] rather than David focusing on the extremely minor content issue at hand of ref formatting.
After patiently trying to work with David Tornheim in the GMO topic for years now, it appears they cannot edit in the topic calmly without engaging in WP:BATTLEGROUND that only serves to agitate the topic. A lot of this has not been single acute events easily dealt with at AE, but persistent under the radar sniping, etc (also quickly hit the maximum diff and word space because of it). This has become especially pronounced after the admin-moderated RfC closed where their behavior has continued inflaming the topic while other editors try to focus on content and keep things civil. I'm at a minimum (i.e., WP:ROPE) suggesting a 0RR restriction for David to reduce at least some of their behavior issues, but I'll leave it to others to discuss how to address the larger battleground behavior. Kingofaces43 (talk) 17:44, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Discussion concerning David Tornheim[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by David Tornheim[edit]Notice of Appeal and Stay of Proposed Decision[edit]--David Tornheim (talk) 04:13, 27 July 2016 (UTC) Old Introduction[edit]No surprise here. King has long sought sanctions for me. I am not alone, King and Tryptofish are constantly asking editors to be sanctioned for pointing out or challenging pro-industry POV edits. This constant push from these two started at GMO ArbCom and picked up ([68] [69]) right after Jytdog was topic banned from GMOs (e.g. against Prokaryotes (here), Wuerzele [70], Vergilden [71], Minor4th [72], DrChrissy [73], SageRad [74], Petrarchan47, etc.). Yet, King files here saying I have the WP:Battleground mentality. His first diffs are from a year ago where Jytdog was harassing me for standing up to his behavior that has been so aggressive that he has been indef. blocked. King cannot stand when I point out pro-industry edits that remove well sourced RS. When I recently pointed out his editing habits here, one of the closing admins said that his edits "twisted" the result of the RfC [75], yet he continued [76]. Even Tryptofish said King's edits were concerning [77]. If it doesn't conform with the industry view, King identifies the source as "fringe" to justify removal from articles:
This filing is retribution for shedding light on pro-industry editing [83]. --David Tornheim (talk) 23:10, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Casting Aspersions[edit]WP:NPOV is policy. The "Casting aspersions" sanction is being used here to prevent anyone from raising issues of edits that violate the WP:NPOV policy, if the POV edit favors industry. Unacceptable. King even admits he wrote the sanction to keep people from calling attention to his editing. This logic of "casting aspersions" appears to be:
I hope it is obvious such logic makes it impossible to address pro-industry POV issues. Item (5) ignores other explanations:
Now, Can anyone look at my diffs above and with a straight face say those edits are not pro-industry? --David Tornheim (talk) 01:18, 26 July 2016 (UTC) Hiatus[edit]Per Lord Roem's request, I started 1 week break from GMO article/talk page editing. Tryptofish who talks about WP:battleground below continues. [84] --David Tornheim (talk) 00:13, 27 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by EllenCT[edit]I have not edited on these topics for at least a year, until today, but I strongly approve of David Tornheim's recent work on the issue. I am a proponent of genetic engineering, which I see as no different in principle than animal husbandry and crop hybridization, but I am opposed to the present commercial situation where rampant consolidation has led to monoculture issues in agriculture instead of robust competition between seed producers.[85][86][87] My primary issue is with Kingofaces43. My first interaction with this editor was in asking his opinion of the most reliable WP:MEDRS-grade source on the relationship between bee population decline and neonicotinoid insecticides. He responded with Fairbrother, et al (2014) "Risks of neonicotinoid insecticides to honeybees", which is not a comprehensive literature review, and the meager review it includes is not on the title's topic. In fact, it includes only a short review of very select sources on, "guidance in the United States and Europe for assessing the risks of pesticides to honeybees" -- not at all on the risks themselves. The paper says, "Funding for the development of this manuscript was provided by Bayer CropScience Ag Research Division." Bayer CropScience is the largest producer of neonicotinoid insecticides. Kingofaces43 has never explained why he considered that the most reliable source on the topic, saying, "Funding source is not relevant in assessing scientific studies, it's the content that needs to be addressed." [88] But he never addressed the fact that the review was not on the title's topic, and has since joined attacks on me at every opportunity, even when they pertained to areas that he has never edited on. It is obvious that Monsanto engages in coordinated and sustained efforts to astroturf.[89] I recommend sanctions against those who try to censor contrary efforts.
Statement by Jusdafax[edit]It is my strong belief that David Tornheim is not the problem editor here. In brief, any careful examination of the edit histories of his detractors show an obsession with the GMO topic, and with creating an environment which is toxic to anyone who questions their methods. I'm hoping this clear overreach by the filing party will make it obvious that we are dealing with a case of tendentious editing, per WP:TEND. Again, just looking at a few diffs is insufficient, what needs to be considered is the larger pattern. I thank all Arbs and admins considering my statement. Jusdafax 19:56, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Tryptofish[edit]I see that David has pinged, at User talk:Coffee, all of the administrators who were involved in supervising or closing the GMO RfC, [91], and that's a good thing. I'll add a ping to Laser brain, whom he overlooked. I suggest that any decision here should wait for their input. David cited a diff by one of those admins (KrakatoaKatie). I'd like to add a diff of what I said in response at the time: [92]. I see editors seem to be saying that Kingofaces is editing on behalf of Monsanto, or at least strongly implying it. It would be helpful if they would actually present evidence to back those accusations up. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:19, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
I think this post by EllenCT goes beyond aspersions, into a direct personal attack: [98]. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:03, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Random IP[edit]I stumbled onto this page from Jimbo's page. The pro-monsanto person that made the initial complaint wrote 900 words and (by my rough count) 32 diffs. The top of the section says he's supposed to keep it to less than 500 words and less than 20 diffs. 209.197.171.107 (talk) 02:30, 25 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by KrakatoaKatie[edit]My involvement here begins and ends with closing the RFC. I agreed to help close it because this is not a subject area in which I have any edits and no history of enforcement in the area (to my knowledge and recollection). I fail to understand, however, how the RFC can be interpreted to delete or add additional text other than what was agreed to by consensus over a month of discussion. The results of the RFC now need to be enforced by uninvolved administrators, and I have no desire or plans to comment further in this AE request or in the GMO area. Katietalk 15:22, 25 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by Capeo[edit]It's long past time David be topic banned from GMOs and Monsanto and anything related. As he states on his user page, he's an activist in the real world and taken part in many anti-industry campaigns. That activism has now firmly found its way into his editing as shown by King's diffs where he's soap boxing the same stuff in multiple places. Similar behavior was displayed during the recent GMO RFC where kept posting the same arguments in multiple areas of the talk page. The same arguments he's posted above, that confuse regulation with scientific research, which most editors clearly didn't find compelling. That fact didn't stop the bludgeoning. Capeo (talk) 16:22, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Count Iblis[edit]I think we should take a conservative attitude when considering intervening to deal with less than ideal ways of arguing. I'm mostly against the arguments of the anti-GM movement, they do make some valid points, but on most issues I disagree with the political stance taken in Europe against GM-foods. The way David argues can have some tabloid-like elements in it, ArbCom may have ruled that this isn't actually allowed. However, in principle, it's better to let the community itself correct someone who steps a bit over the line and steer that person back toward presenting his/her arguments in an acceptable way. It's best to only intervene when such feedback doesn't work and what we see is a degeneration in the topic area due to the contributions of that person. I don't think that's the case here. E.g. the thread title used on Jimbo's talk page may not be ideal when judged by rigorous standards, it's not something you can use in a scientific paper, but it's not all that untypical for tabloid style newspapers. So, it is actually within the editorial standards of how people in daily lives like to communicate. The scientific nature of this topic also adds an extra layer of protection. The community has already decided to apply strict guidelines that give priority to scientific articles, this automatically creates a solid wall protecting the topic area from degenerating due to bad arguments. If this were a political topic without a hard scientific core, e.g. Scientology, or Israel/Palestine, then one has to be far more proactive in intervening to prevent the editing in the subject area from degenerating. Count Iblis (talk) 17:21, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
Statement by Cathry[edit]I read David Tornheim's propоsals in the last RFC(GMO). As for me it was detailed analysis with reference to the reliable sources. I was very disappointed when any sources from peer-reviewd journals with criticism were simply ignored by community. Just as was ignored last scientific review on this topic by toxicologist (Domingo, 2016) As to Kingofaces43 I was faced with his behavior here when he without a rational explanation moved significant data from lead and here when he stated that it is "original research" to compare 64%-101% and 23%-33% (protective impact of conventional and GM soybean) and that "the actual percentages are undue weight (simply not needed information for our audience)". Despite the fact comparison was in other source. As far as I see, I am not only one who noticed Kingofaces43 non-neutrality. Personally I'm not very interested in Kingofaces43 motives. But it is obvious for me, Kingofaces43 edits pull topic into biotechnology and pesticides advertising, especially it they continue without balance from editors like David Tornheim.Cathry (talk) 02:27, 26 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by Alexbrn[edit]As one of the editors on the receiving end of the "Monsanto must be pleased" post, I have to say I find some of the proposed remedies here disappointingly limp, and strongly suspect they will not improve things. Surely, given the long history of warnings, either a site ban or topic ban is the right course of action now. This follow-up posting[99] in response to this AE only further shows that Mr Tornheim is incorrigible. Alexbrn (talk) 06:18, 28 July 2016 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning David Tornheim[edit]
The best way to incorporate that, I think, is to change my sample "...as well as the actions of corporations or persons..." to "...as well as Wikipedia-related actions of corporations or persons...". Does that sound better? The WordsmithTalk to me 17:57, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
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