Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive170
Brews ohare
[edit]| Warned for TBAN breaches. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:17, 4 April 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Brews ohare[edit]
The articles Bell's theorem and Free will theorem are very much physics articles.
notification --JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 20:13, 31 March 2015 (UTC) Discussion concerning Brews ohare[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Brews ohare[edit]The question here is a content issue. Namely, are topics in philosophy such as free will to be classified as physics, or physics-related mathematics. The comment added to Bell's theorem under the subsection Bell's theorem#Metaphysical aspects is clearly about philosophy, and adds Hodgson's philosophical assessment about implications for free will, which he bases upon the free will theorem. It is clear that my contribution does not presume to enter into the physics or the mathematics of the free will theorem. My contribution is simply to add some sources and point out Hodgson's discussion in his book Rationality + Consciousness = Free will. As the briefest of looks at my contributions will reveal, nowhere have I engaged in a discussion of physics or mathematics related to physics. My intent in making these contributions certainly is not to flout the rulings of Arbcom. My addition of examples of two types of physical states by linking to quantum state and to thermodynamic state in a philosophy article are also not physics discussions any more than a discussion of philosophy that mentions Schrodinger's philosophical views on the subject-object problem is a discussion of physics simply because Schrodinger was a physicist. Using links to denote examples of states is not a discussion of quantum theory or thermodynamics, any more than is their mention in this sentence. And again, my intent was not to flout Arbcom. Arbcom, of course, is charged with enforcing behavior that is not inimical to the welfare of WP. They have deemed that requires my avoidance of physics and physics-related mathematics. Does Arbcom find these contributions of mine have hurt WP? Does Blackburne? Of course, if they were to be understood as flagrant violations with the object of undermining authority, context would not matter. But they are not physics, nor mathematics, nor abuses. Brews ohare (talk) 16:35, 1 April 2015 (UTC) I am concerned that comments by some Admins indicate they find my remarks here to be a form of defiance of Arbcom. That is not the case, as I have repeated twice above, nor is it correct that these remarks are some kind of petition for free reign to ignore the ban altogether. I don't claim a tremendous value to WP of my adding links to "See also" subsections and to a couple of philosophy books. I agree to a mea culpa that I failed to recognize that, despite these changes being philosophy and not physics-related, any changes were off-limits. I now am reminded that is so despite the philosophical content of Bell's theorem and the Free will theorem because they have physics as well as philosophical content. It won't happen again. Brews ohare (talk) 06:21, 2 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by FyzixFighter[edit]I am not currently involved in any dispute with this user, though I was a minor participant in the some of the disputes that led to his current ArbCom sanctions. I was surprised to see his recent edits on Bell's theorem and from there saw other edits that IMO violated the original topic ban from "all pages of whatever nature about physics and physics-related mathematics, broadly construed" and the later clarification/final warning linked to above. I would add a few more diffs of questionable edits:
In fact, his previous editing of Physical determinism was deemed to have violated the topic ban in the 14-Feb-2013 AE report. Quickly scanning some of his other recent edits, I see what looks like engaging in tendentious debates. I am especially troubled by what looks like edits to policy and essay pages to "clarify" ambiguities in such a way as to support his side of an argument in an editing dispute. This pattern of behavior was noted by others in a previous AN/I report. --FyzixFighter (talk) 04:15, 1 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Snowded[edit]As has been pointed out in his response to this report Brews makes no admission of fault and simply asserts that what he has done was the right thing. This is the general pattern that earned him the topic ban in the first time. In his last set of edits to philosophy articles the same pattern of behaviour resulted in long tortuous exchanges on talk pages, edit warring (I was right you were wrong so I am putting my edits back) in defiance of WP:BRD. We had multiple RFCs all of which (bar one minor one on a diagram) went against him. It was exhausting dealing with it. I eventually tool most pages off watch as I had had enough. In this latest round on Free Will we see an identical pattern of behaviour. There are not many editors on the Philosophy pages. User Pfhorrest tried to explain things and then did a mass revert as Brews was not listening. He then got to the point of giving up trying. I'm probably going to have to do a mass revert again and spend hours going through more reinsertions. Brews not only doesn't listen but he uses formats for references that make it even more difficult to amend his edits and rejects any attempt at compromise. Now I know this page just deals with the Arb Com restriction, but if you are going for a less period I suggest it comes with a requirement to accept a 1rr restriction when he comes back and an insistence that if his edits are rejected he uses the talk pages before he reinstates them. I would also suggest a restriction on using policy pages to try and win content disputes. ----Snowded TALK 14:48, 2 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Frenchmalawi[edit]I think Brews ohare is a serious editor. Another editor mentioned Free will and his contributions on that article. I would ask those who are trying to have a go at Brews ohare to have a read of his thoughtful, respectful discussion on Talk:Free will. Frenchmalawi (talk) 13:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Hell in a Bucket[edit]There is indeed ongoing consensus among the Arb Committee that WP:IAR is a valid reason to ignore topic and or outright ban violations if it is correcting the encyclopedia and helpful. I think that in light of that consensus this should be dismissed with no actions unless someone can show they hurt the encyclopedia? It will be a curious double standard and I eagerly await some sort of justification although I'm sure that is below the committee to provide why they wouldn't in this case. Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:57, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by My very best wishes[edit]I agree with arguments by Newyorkbrad - no action other than warning at this point. Speaking more generally, I am against imposing indefinite sanctions on users who contributed significantly to the project, and Brews is one of them. I think it would make a lot of sense to remove the topic ban for Brews for a short period of time and see how it goes, if he promises not be engaged in WP:TE-like disputes. There is little to loose per WP:IAR. Certainly, I would not argue in favor of a POV-pushing SPA who created nothing but the trouble, however Brews is very different. He is a highly qualified contributor with significant record of improving the content. My very best wishes (talk) 15:46, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Brews ohare[edit]
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Supreme Deliciousness
[edit]| No action taken. EdJohnston (talk) 05:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Supreme Deliciousness[edit]
WP:ARBPIA - specifically the neutral point of view reminder (4)
SupremeDeliciousness has a history of highlighting the occupation throughout Wikipedia while doing little else for the project. I understand that we need to assume good faith and that being a single purpose account is not inherently a bad thing. However, he has shown that his bias negatively affects the topic area. The editor's clear agenda and tendency to edit war are more nuanced than usually seen at AE. I had a hard time thinking of how to "prove" this and decided to look at every 50th edit (just selected next page in the history screen) the other day. It was surprising how many were reverts. Many edits are factually accurate but I hope this shows that there might be an attempt to put undue focus on the occupation:
These issues have been going on for years and this is simply a snapshot of recent behavior. SupremeDeliciousness has always made sure not to cross the line too far, which I suppose is a good thing. My frustration leads me to want to request a topic ban but I don't know if that is even appropriate. I believe the editor needs to be counseled by a level headed admin and that a prohibition on reverts should be considered.
The discussion here about the temple mount has further illustrated the concerns. Ymblanter brings up a point that many editors and readers consider. Supreme Deliciousness has not only reverted 3 times since December without once using the talk page, his edit summaries here are dismissive of even the suggestion that it can be addressed. As others have noted, it is not internationally recognized as Israel while Ymblanter points out that it is controlled and functions as Israel. That is a content issue but the complete unwillingness to look into different wording while reverting multiple times is a behavioral problem.Cptnono (talk) 20:15, 22 March 2015 (UTC) C'mon, Nableezy. This isn't a problem with new editors.Cptnono (talk) 02:47, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
"account for yourself"? If you can;t even understand my original post than you shouldn't be responding to it.Cptnono (talk) 22:04, 27 March 2015 (UTC) These edit summaries are enough for me to say close this. No adult likes to be lectured but SD was in need of it. If he feels that he should "continue with the exact same kind of edits brought up here"[30] and that an admin who considered a warning (without even an official sanction) has "repeatedly made it clear to everyone that [Ymblanter] no idea what [Ymblanter] are talking about"[31] then I assume he will dig his own grave. This behavior isn't new. Maybe this will be one of a long line of complaints against an editor who is here to better the project_as long as it is inline with his agenda. Close this out and I look forward to another (hopefully less shitty) conversation in a couple weeks when he does it again.Cptnono (talk) 08:07, 28 March 2015 (UTC) Why is Malik commenting in the admin section? He is involved in the topic area. Furthermore, why is this still open? We will see how Supreme Deliciousness does. He said that he will not make any changes and I'm curious to see how that improves the project. We have all of the time in the world to sit back and edit.Cptnono (talk) 06:16, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
This is getting aggravating. Can an admin give SD a green light or not? This edit summarizes my concern perfectly. Remove descriptive and neuteral wording and slam even more details in if it assists in the POV. It is underhanded and sneaky. I know that smacks of assuming the worst of faith but that is what it is. Sanction the guy or close this out so we know where we stand.Cptnono (talk) 09:19, 4 April 2015 (UTC) It is weird because I am probably a drunken psychopath trying to edit Wikipedia, IRISZOOM. The goal is to collect and maintain knowledge on the Internet. SD is here to change people's minds. That us why this AE was created.Cptnono (talk) 06:20, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Supreme Deliciousness[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Supreme Deliciousness[edit]Please take a closer look at the diffs Cptnono has provided above:
I would also like to point out that Cptnono comes here with unclean hands, take a look at this:[49] Cptnono make a revert with the edit summary: "Since SD did not answer my reasoning and then another editor made m point for me I am reverting. I likely would not have reverted if it didn't turn into an edit war. I want to play too" --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:43, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Magog the Ogre, for that kind of restriction there would have to be evidence showing any problematic edit I have done where I wrongfully remove "Israeli" or wrongfully ad "occupied", no such evidence has been provided here. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 02:11, 1 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Greyshark09[edit]The problem with Supreme Deliciousness is that it is a single topic account: Supreme's only interest is ARBPIA topics (and to a lesser degree SCWGS) - most notably the status of various borders and territories disputed by Syria and Palestine with Israel. His emotional attachment to the topic forces him to go to extremes in his "righteous" fight against the other opinion... which is the typical danger sign of Wikipedia:Wikipediholic. This might have not been a problem in some cases, but Supreme has repeatedly caused mayhem in English Wikipedia and in Commons, being blocked on Commons and on English wiki and warned every now and then. There might be a serious problem of accepting community consensus and NPOV concepts by Supreme, as I can recall two cases of problematic edit-warring on his behalf - one on Quneitra Governorate article, aiming to enforce an opinion in contrary to the community consensus, and another on Syrian Civil War maps - as well blatantly going against the consensus a number of times (later fixed at this discussion).GreyShark (dibra) 21:24, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by IRISZOOM[edit]There is a big problem when it comes to Israeli-occupied territories as some wants to put it "in Israel", though the world rejects that view (even Israel too when it comes to the West Bank excluding East Jerusalem) and view it as occupied. There is a clear consensus on this, also reflected on Wikipedia, and it's only good to remove such NPOV violations. As the world think the Palestinian territories and the Golan Heights are occupied territories, saying they are "Israeli" or "in Israel" is unacceptable. I myself, and many other editors in this area, often have to remove such things, and this can't be seen as something negative. Regarding Greyshark09's point about the Golan Heights issue, it was actually only the RFC at Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant/Archive 26 (started in December 2014 and closed in January 2015) which solved the issue if the Golan Heights should be mentioned. As can be seen at Talk:Syrian Civil War/Israel#Adding Israel as belligerent on Syrian Civil War maps, a new discussion was started there in August 2014 because it wasn't clear on how to resolve the issue as it, contrary to the claim, hadn't been solved. I can recall Greyshark09 himself making changes to that same issue on his own, such as changing to "Disputed areas" here (in fact, it takes the Israeli view that the areas are only disputed and not occupied, while there later was a consensus to not mention the area at all), though there were no consensus for that. So I think Greyshark09 should be cautious to criticize Supreme Deliciousness on this issue. --IRISZOOM (talk) 23:51, 15 March 2015 (UTC)
The Old City of Jerusalem is not in Israel and that is how we have treated it Wikipedia too. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:19, 22 March 2015 (UTC) I think it is wrong to punish those who remove untrue and biased statements. Contrary to what some think, saying for example "Israeli-controlled" is not better than "Israeli-occupied" because it is viewed as occupied territories (including by the Israeli Supreme Court and some former Israeli prime ministers) by basically the whole world. The first term is not more neutral, it is the opposite as it prefers the Israeli view. As I said before, there are some who constantly change to that type of wording, in addition to for example removing mention of Palestine or Palestinians, and reverting them is the correct thing to do. --IRISZOOM (talk) 03:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC) I agree with Nableezy's latest response. I can't understand how such type of edits are seen by some admins as not only unwelcome, but as a problem. Just look at these two edits I saw some hours ago and reverted: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Karnei_Shomron&diff=prev&oldid=654398856 and https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Calipatria,_California&diff=654398390&oldid=654299022. You can make a list full of such reverts made by me and others but that does not make them unacceptable. It rather shows what we have to deal with so often. -IRISZOOM (talk) 03:21, 1 April 2015 (UTC) This is getting silly now. I and Supreme Deliciousness wrote in Talk:Tourism in Israel two days ago regarding the current wording. I wrote here regarding the issue. Cptnono did not write there but just in the subsection until today when SD then went forward to rewrite it. SD even wrote a respectful response to him but this is of course not mentioned here. Cptnono is portraying it like SD keeps POV pushing and are not neutral. Now that SD tries to improve the wording with regards to the issues that are there now, Cptnono brings it up here and portrays it as something negative and that "Remove descriptive and neuteral wording and slam even more details in if it assists in the POV". You may think think more description was not needed but the current wording is not at all "descriptive and neuteral". This gives me a bad feeling regarding his intentions. I think the right thing would be to keep discussing it with SD on the talk page instead of going here again to try portray it in another way. I think Cptnono's approach is weird. He says in his revert "that didn;t really work out in my opinion at least. we are getting closer to the goal but are still a little short". But wait, why then revert instead of (as I just wrote in that talk page) improving it to the last bit you are saying is short? The current wording is cherry-picked and does not portray the issue correctly, in contrary to what is claimed. SD's wording portrays the issue correctly. Anyone can look at the source and see what the issue was according to the Advertising Standards Authority. --IRISZOOM (talk) 10:45, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000[edit](involved administrator) I did not review all of the diffs provided here, but I looked at many of them and it is clear what is going on. The Israel-Palestine part of Wikipedia is under continuous assault by people (usually IPs or SPAs) who just want to insert their political positions. Common themes are to insert "in Israel" into articles about places not in Israel (including places that Israel does not claim to be in Israel), to remove mention of the military occupation, or to gratuitously remove the word "Palestine". Every day there are multiple such edits, and the people who do it obviously know exactly what they are doing. The principles have been discussed countless times in talk pages and project pages and anyone who wants to reopen the discussion is able to do so. Meanwhile, one of the boring daily chores required for article maintenance is to sweep away the dross that appeared overnight. It is certain not beholden on good editors to start a new discussion every time someone comes past and makes the same old unacceptable edits over again. Zerotalk 01:19, 16 March 2015 (UTC) @Ymblanter: I urge you to not issue a warning regarding the Temple Mount edit. It would be an unwarranted interference in a normal content dispute. If you want to be involved in the discussion of such content questions, you are welcome to join us, however it would be extremely unfortunate if you used your position on this board to promote one minority POV at the expense of others. Zerotalk 22:46, 22 March 2015 (UTC) @Ymblanter: There is a consensus over all of the Israel-Palestine area of Wikipedia that we do not state in Wikipedia's voice that places are in Israel when only Israel claims them to be. What we do is note both the Israeli claim and the contrary international position. I don't know if this was the topic of a centralised discussion somewhere (I'm no good at remembering such things) but the fact of the consensus should be clear to most editors working in the area. I don't know how someone "points to" this consensus, but I do know that everyone experienced in the area would have understood the reason for SD's edit without needing to be told for the umpteenth time, since similar things happen every day. They are so common that an appropriate edit-summary would be "yawn". What will happen if you warn SD on account of this edit is that the few editors who are intent on pushing an Israeli POV contrary to consensus will be emboldened to push harder and will start using your warning as a stick against anyone who opposes them. I'm confident that you are not motivated to support a minority POV, but that is what the effect of a warning would be in practice. Also, I wonder if you noticed that the edit in question was almost 3 months ago, which is nearly always old enough to be considered stale on this board. Zerotalk 00:53, 23 March 2015 (UTC) @Ymblanter:: some comments.
SD's editing at Commons and here often included removing Israel categories from places that nobody except Israel accepts to be in Israel. If SD is prevented from removing such categories in the future, it will be beholden on other editors to remove them as required by NPOV. Unfortunately neutrality is being mistaken for pov here. An equivalent action from a Palestinian pov would be to add a State of Palestine category to Haifa; if it happens it is reverted immediately. I find it disappointing that no admin either here or on Commons has noted the serious neutrality problem with categories that support a minority nationalism. Some only seem interested in sanctioning those who remove them. Zerotalk 03:48, 1 April 2015 (UTC) @Magog the Ogre: Just for the record, if someone on Commons starts adding "Category:State of Palestine" to photos of things in Haifa, Tel Aviv and Ramla, what will you do? Zerotalk 03:56, 1 April 2015 (UTC) @Magog the Ogre: Since I did not appeal to tu quoque at all, your reply is unhelpful as well as rude, but I'll withdraw from commenting on matters at Commons, which are anyway irrelevant here. My real point was to invite you to comment on the difference between inserting non-neutral text and removing it. I think that sometimes SD goes overboard in inserting "occupied" in contexts where the political reality is not the topic of discussion, but edits that remove or neutralize narrow nationalist viewpoints made in Wikipedia's voice are called "good editing". If he was such a pov-pusher as you say, he would be inserting corresponding Arab/Palestinian viewpoints like in my hypothetical examples, but I don't see him doing things like that. Zerotalk 08:29, 1 April 2015 (UTC) @Magog the Ogre: Accusing me of "Megalomaniacal point of view" is a blatant and serious violation of WP:NPA. You might have only been an administrator less than half as long as I have, but you should know better. I'm trying to understand your case. You started by mentioning some past behavior of SD on Commons, but noted "he has not had any problems in the 5 months since that occurred". Ok so far; I promised to avoid comment about Commons. Then you proposed particular sanctions here on en.wiki. Several people including me asked you to justify your proposals, but you have so far not given any example of the terrible behavior that you claim is so obvious. All you do is make strong accusations and provide scary wikilinks. It's not good enough. The only explicit evidence we have for the basis of your charges comes from the details of your proposed sanctions: (1) insertion of the word "occupied", (2) deletion of the word "Israeli", (3) "personal attacks". Regarding (1) and (2), which match the original diffs provided, you summarily dismiss arguments that most of his edits in those categories are not bad at all, claiming that they are irrelevant. But that gives your case a big problem. Either those edits are the evidence, in which case argument that they are not bad edits is extremely relevant; or those edits are not the evidence, in which case no evidence at all has been provided. Neither possibility supports you. Regarding (3), I don't see that anyone except you mentioned personal attacks by SD. Where is your evidence? The only correct charge made about SD here is that he is biased. Bugger me, as Nish would say, but everyone except me who edits in the Israel/Arab area of Wikipedia is biased. From my 13 years of experience there I'd judge SD's degree of bias affliction to be average. SD is quicker than most to revert certain things, such as claims that places are in Israel when they aren't, but such claims in Wikipedia's voice violate policy and should be reverted. It seems to me that most of the charges against SD boil down to him being too obsessive in making correct edits. Zerotalk 10:18, 2 April 2015 (UTC) Cptnono now says that this edit summarises his concern perfectly. Great, so everyone please look at it and read the two brief sources. Note that they refer to two different rulings, from 2010 and 2015. The text before SD's edit gives no indication of exactly what was in the advertisements that ASA thought inappropriate, only that it had something to do with the disputed status of Jerusalem. However, both sources highlight the issue explicitly, right in their first or second sentences: ASA ruled that the advertisements implied East Jerusalem to be in Israel, and considers that they therefore broke the advertising code. SD's edit provided that information, in complete conformity with the sources. I agree with Cptnono that this example summarises the case: there is no case. Zerotalk 14:17, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Rhoark (uninvolved)[edit]Edits related to the control or status of territories are a recurring theme, but Deliciousness' versions seem to be those with better sourcing or specificity, not reflective of a pattern of POV pushing. Being a SPA is not a problem; someone has to do the work. I'd semiprotect the whole topic area. Rhoark (talk) 02:58, 16 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by AcidSnow[edit]I have yet to see Deliciousness do anything wrong. AcidSnow (talk) 04:18, 16 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Nishidani[edit]I'll intrude here. SD's reply to Umblanter's remark about the Temple Mount is absolutely correct, and generally practiced editors on all sides tend to avoid pulling one way or another on this. The waqf administering the site is in Jordan, and Israel always negotiates directly with Jordan on issues regarding that site. Ymblanter's statement is the Israeli POV, of course, not a statement of some unambiguous fact, esp. since a leading authority Ian S. Lustick has shown that Israel, contrary to numerous statements, official and otherwise, has not even used the instrument of formal annexation to assert its control of East Jerusalem.Nishidani (talk) 17:06, 21 March 2015 (UTC) [Moved from #Statement by Supreme Deliciousness // coldacid (talk|contrib) 17:39, 21 March 2015 (UTC)]
Statement by Nableezy[edit]I'm sorry, but Ymblanter (talk · contribs) is flat wrong here. And that is a content matter, not a conduct one. But on the content, the Temple Mount is not located in Israel, it's located in East Jerusalem, part of the occupied Palestinian territories, a place that nearly the entire world agrees is not in Israel. That removal by SD is completely valid, and to sanction, or warn, him for it would be an admin enforcing a view on the content of an article. I thought that was a no-no. nableezy - 01:55, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
And who said anything about new users? nableezy - 15:15, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
This really seems way off. The edits that restored the word occupied were spot on. The edits that removed a place as being in Israel were spot on. This seems to me an instance in which a user throws up a bunch of edits, collected over months, that all individually stand up on their merits in the hope of showing some nefarious pattern. The edits are all correct, and yall cant seriously be considering a sanctions for making what are, emphatically, good edits. nableezy - 02:57, 1 April 2015 (UTC) @Magog the Ogre:, I dont think you actually tore down Zero's reasoning. You write he has done nothing but insert coatrack content, that isnt demonstrated by the diffs presented. Adding that a place is Israeli-occupied when it is Israeli-occupied isnt adding coatrack content. You write that hes done nothing but edit war. I think he could have used a few more talk page comments in some of those instances, but for the most part he was reverting sock puppet accounts and throw-away IPs that come in and revert a bunch of edits and never say another word. But 4 reverts over a month is edit-warring? 5 over 6 weeks is edit-warring? 7 over 3 months is edit-warring? And nearly all against sock puppet accounts? Cmon now. There isnt any basis to the claim that all hes done is edit-war or insert coatrack content. If theres actual evidence for that by all means present it. But what was brought here was months old edits, each of which stand up fine on their own. nableezy - 05:38, 2 April 2015 (UTC) This latest edit brought by Cptnono is a concern. However the concern is that Cptnono thinks that accurately representing the cited source is a bad thing. That reverting so that a complete whitewash of what the BBC reported is an acceptable tactic. And then coming here and crying oh no, he used facts. Facts from the source. Facts I wish the source did not include. Facts that I do not want to include. Facts. Thats the problem here, Cptnono does not like the facts that the BBC reports. And he does not like that SD faithfully represents such sources in our articles. If theres a problem here its the attempted whitewashing of basic facts, reported in countless sources, time and again by Cptnono and others determined to downplay any fact that is not showing Israel as a shining beacon on the hill. nableezy - 14:04, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Nomoskedasticity[edit]Ymblanter: new users are of course welcome to edit in this area -- but if they edit in ways that go against long-standing consensus, their edits are likely to be reverted. The edits by SD that did so were not misconduct -- quite the contrary. If you see matters differently in regard to whether adding the category would be appropriate, you are also of course welcome to participate in discussions on the topic, at the relevant article talk-pages. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 08:01, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Huldra[edit]There are certain long-term (uneasy) agreements in the I/P area, which AFAIK, Supreme Deliciousness has fully complied with. Each of these long-term agreements should have been on one page, I agree, but mostly they have been worked out over many, many pages over many years. One I´m very familiar with, is "depopulated village" for the List of Arab towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus. The "Palestinian side" prefer "ethically cleansed villages" (see this web-site, as an example), while official Israeli sources always talks about "abandoned villages". (Like "Deir Yassin was abandoned"). We have come to an uneasy truce, by using "depopulated", a word no side loves, but all sides can live with. You have "teach newcomers" all the time, so you have a little bit at here, and a little bit there, and some even at a DYK-nom., etc, etc. With genuine new editors this is normally not a problem. The problem is the myriads of banned socks, and the partisan old-timers that don´t like the compromise and want to impose "their right version" on some article. The former needs to be reversed, the latter needs to be ignored (or WP:BOOMERANGed) when they file WP:AE complaints against those follow who the consensus. Huldra (talk) 21:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by AnotherNewAccount[edit]I post this with some trepidation, as there is a hostile atmosphere on this subject. I am on the fence regarding the AE request itself, but I believe the following needs to be said and noted. Most of it falls out of the scope of this AE, but I believe action must be taken forward elsewhere, perhaps in a topic-wide RfC. I fully agree with Ymblanter (talk · contribs) that "the editing standards in the area do not conform to the Five Pillars." I can see exactly what Cptnono (talk · contribs) and others are saying. Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs) is a kingpin of a small but very assertive group of partisan SPAs in this topic area that are clearly only, or mainly, here for WP:ADVOCACY and to right what they perceive as WP:GREATWRONGS in Palestine. They seem to have an awful lot of time on their hands to write, research, discuss, consult sources, and, less positively, to argue, edit-war, use and misuse procedures, including resorting to AE (or the threat of AE) and other measures in order to impose their point of view, and as a result they have managed to skew the encyclopedia substantially in this topic area over the long term. I have made half-hearted attempts over the months to reverse a little bit of the bias (usually the more off-piste stuff) but in the handful of times I've tried I have been burned. I don't care about the subject matter so it doesn't twist my nose out of joint, but I would like to be able to read about it without coming across a piece of jarring propaganda - an "ideological rock" if you like - tossed by one of these SPAs and intended, not to inform the reader, but to prejudice them against the subject of the article. Several of the edits Cptnono complained about above are just such edits. There is a general long term effort by this group to marginalize the Israeli position in favour of the position of "the World" or the "international community" or "international law", which they consider to be more favourable to their cause. Underpinning this is a bogus consensus they've generated amongst themselves that the Israeli position is invariably WP:FRINGE and it is therefore acceptable to dismiss it entirely or relegate it to passing mentions. Ymblanter is correct. For all practical purposes the Temple Mount is in Israel and as things stand, the "international view" is a diplomatic and legal fiction, and I believe articles should not be so distorted to comply with it. Removing the Temple Mount from an Israel-related category is but another small advance in the ongoing Israel-Palestine Wikipedia "POV-kampf". Labels such as "Israeli-occupied" may very well be the view of the international community, but unlike Wikipedia, the international community does not have a NPOV policy, and in this particular case, I prefer more neutral term "Israeli-controlled". Most of the "clear consensus'" being talked about here are also entirely illusory, having been imposed by these very same assertive SPAs. Views of dissenters are shouted down, or dismissed, sometimes rudely, and sometimes with accusations of bad faith or sockpuppetry, etc. I'll address an incident I was involved in some days ago. I edited the article Ariel University in good faith, to remove a blatant inaccuracy, based on a very creative reading of a tertiary source, that the university is "in Palestine". This is misleading for a variety of reasons. It turns out my edit turned out to be in effect a revert of one of Supreme Deliciousness' edits (actually itself a revert, unsurprisingly). Another user then reverts my edit, the edit summary coming close to implying that I was a sock. Rather insulted, I revert back - the first time I have ever "reverted in anger" on this account since I created it a couple of years ago. This user then demanded I revert my edit, as technically, my edit had violated 1RR. I believe this demand constituted an abuse of the 1RR procedure, exploited to stonewall attempts to ensure accuracy and NPOV and to "lock" the article into "their" status quo. It turns out that this has been a long term bone of contention on that article. Reading the talk page discussion, the key reasons that Ariel University is "in Palestine" are as follows:
I note that the same SPAs so irked by the idea of a disputed site being placed "in Israel", are more than happy to argue aggressively that another similarly disputed site is "in Palestine". This goes far beyond a single complaint against a single SPA. A huge problem here is that, barring a handful of acrimonious ARBCOM interventions, Wikipedia has never really thrashed out a comprehensive topic-wide editorial policy in the topic area in question, relying on article-by-article understandings among a small group of highly active editors, and mistakenly taken to constitute "consensus". It needs to decide if the Temple Mount is indeed "in Israel" or if Ariel University is indeed "in Palestine". It needs to decide if the Israeli presence in the territories should be labelled "occupied" at every mention, whether a more neutral term should be found. I have my doubts that this could come about from "consensus-building" in each and every article, and the inflamed passions on both sides complicates things immensely. Admins will at least need to mediate wielding a big stick if they are to be at all successful. Ultimately though, Wikipedia needs to stop sweeping the deep-rooted problems in the topic area under the bureaucratic carpet because if it doesn't, the topic will continue to be a WP:BATTLEGROUND for partisan SPAs, malicious socks and other types, and the encyclopedia and its content will continue to be far weaker for it. AnotherNewAccount (talk) 22:30, 25 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by Kingsindian[edit]I see nothing at all wrong in what SD did anywhere. But I will give free unasked advice to AnotherNewAccount since some people say their might be a problem for newcomers in this area. If you want to edit in this area, you need to
Statement by GregKaye[edit]There have been issues in which I have regarded Supreme Deliciousness to be a tendentious editor but I think his actions fade to nothing in comparison to other editors involved. Please can involved editors take boomerang into serious consideration. My only moderate concern, that I specifically remember, was with the pursuit of Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant#Incorrect closure of previous discussion concerning map. A fair procedural point was raised but on an issue, which I think the text of the thread makes clear, was a non issue. I'll copy text from above and add comment:
...inserting "occupied"... Cptnono has neglected to mention that reference here is to the fair description of "the occupied West Bank" ...5 reverts since February 24 regarding a conviction... to be discovered SP editor: I invented "it's not you, it's me" added (the bold): "Samir Kuntar, former member of the Palestine Liberation Front who was convicted of murder/who was convicted by Israel of the murder of a 4 year old girl by smashing her skull/and convicted murderer" neglecting to round the statement by saying something like ".. by/according to Israeli courts" ...7 reverts since January 29 regarding legality of Israel's control... The edit that SD reverted to proclaimed was "The Golan Heights has been run as a sub-district of the North District of Israel since the 1981 Golan Heights Law was passed, although its de jure annexation is not internationally recognized, and the unenforced United Nations Security Council Resolution 497 declared the annexation invalid." Basically the edit could have been interpreted to say that, "while the annexation was in law, the international community (bunch of buffoons) hadn't got round to giving recognition". IMO, this was unacceptable and a balancing edit was certainly warranted. Israeli cuisine, 3 reverts... Editor: Infantom had made, IMO, three clearly disruptive edits. This is so ridiculous its akin to book burning. There should not be an editing out of culture and cultural influences. Greyshark09 there is no problem with having a single topic account as long as the result is NPOV. If anything SD's edits have had more effect to restore NPOV than anything else by far. Cptnono PLEASE account for yourself. Everything here, as far as I can see, has been an utter waste of everyone's time. Note to admin - I think some measure of topic block would be in order here to give the editor time to consider this situation. If the accusations are sincere they demonstrate a utter lack of understanding of NPOV. Please also consider action against the various of the editors that SD reverted. GregKaye 14:12, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Magog the Ogre[edit]First off, apologies to everyone else. I freely admit I have not carefully read everyone's comments, but I am coming to this discussion at the request of a moderator. Second a history:
Third, my observations:
Magog the Ogre (t • c) 23:05, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Short comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge[edit]The first diff shows SD reinserting the word "occupied". While the land is clearly occupied, what's the point of including this tidbit into this particular article? After all, the article is about a kidnapping, not the West Bank's political status. Its inclusion seems gratuitous. Further, the cited source is this CNN article,[76] which does not state that the West Bank is occupied. The cited source does include a quote which states, ""The arrest campaign made by the Israeli occupation in the West Bank..." but it would be wrong to transform the content inside a quote into a forthright statement in Wikipedia' voice. Statement by Bfpage[edit]This is my first foray into this type of discussion. I've actually read through the WHOLE discussion concerning SD and have seen no indication of his/her editing in bad faith. I am completely unfamiliar with the topics being discussed and spend my time writing and editing articles on bacteria, butterflies and reproduction. You all keep some pretty detailed tabs on each other's activities. Best Regards, Bfpage |leave a message 17:37, 2 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Supreme Deliciousness[edit]
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Calypsomusic
[edit]| No specific action taken against editors, however Bharatiya Janata Party is placed on standard 1RR for 6 months to try and calm it down. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:03, 9 April 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Calypsomusic[edit]
Calypsomusic's editing consistently shows that they do not understand our sourcing policies. They have repeatedly posted blogs, websites, and fringe sources to support their arguments on talk pages, such as here. This, along with the battleground behavior mentioned above, means that carrying on productive discussions with them is virtually impossible. I am not the only one to notice this; Calypsomusic was flagged as an SPA by Drmies on 11 April 2014 on ANI, where a number of issues were raised with their editing. ANI report dropped thanks to an SPI, which turned up negative (diffs on request) but single-purpose editing has not stopped. The vast majority of their edits have to do with Koenraad Elst or the Bharatiya Janata Party, and their use of unreliable and fringe sources indicated an inability to follow WP:NPOV and WP:V. Considering that this is a sensitive and controversial topic area, I believe they should be topic-banned until they show that they can follow these policies and behavioral guidelines. I am aware that my own conduct will come under scrutiny here, and I am prepared to receive feedback and/or other consequences. I will just say in my own defense that if I seem to not AGF with this user in the interactions visible here, it is because my history with them, and this sort of behavior, stretches even further beyond the interactions shown here (for instance, to their behavior at Koenraad Elst related articles, diffs on request), and that I have collegial interactions with the vast majority of users.
Discussion concerning Calypsomusic[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Calypsomusic[edit]I don't have time for a full reply today, but will provide one in the next days. Some preliminary notes on this comment: "the misrepresentation of sources and the second edit third one under the battleground header (regarding POINT) seem to me to be the most concerning". The first alleged "misrepresentation" was actually me reverting an IP Edit. In one of the reverts, I explained to the IP that deletions of content should be explained: "rv unexplained major changes and deletions, please provide a rationale for large deletions". I remember last year I edited the article, but only added sourced content. What the IP reverted includes additional material that was not added by me. I reverted simply because the IP did not explain the deletions. The second case is a content and neutrality dispute. Shourie and Ghosh are very relevant to the section, which is BJP and education policy/textbooks controversies. Ghosh's article that I cited is discussing "changes that the BJP had brought in the textbooks". Both are cited in this context in Ramesh Rao's book that I used and other sources. I also didn't have the time to reply to Vanamonde's revert on the talkpage before he opened this here, so really this is something that should be discussed on the talkpage first. Vanamonde seems to imply here that my source was published in 1998, but his sources were published later. However, the section in the article does not mention any years, if it did, it would have been easier for me to put the additional material in a chronological context. To the third case, I explained on the talkpage: "I didn't read the full article, but used a quote from the article I saw in a book. The point that needs to be illustrated is that the BJP also made pro-Muslim actions and initiatives, which must also be mentioned. One of them is that it increased the subsidy given to the pilgrims. Rather than deleting the fact, we can add that it previously opposed the subsidy." And later: "The following instance show both sides of the relation, and should be included". After Vanamonde explained it on the talkpage, I did not add it again. On the talkpage I commented on the possibility to use the source as an example where the BJP made both Muslim-critical and pro-Muslim actions.
The third edit under the battleground header (regarding POINT): the edit does not fall under point. It was not an edit "they do not actually agree": the edits were fully justified because KA has zero training in the topic areas and therefore I believe that they should not not be included, especially since these are topic areas where an extremely broad range of much more relevant authors exist. The edits were not in any way directly related to the edits of Darkness Shines, so it was not a POINT in regards to Darkness Shines actions, but the strongly disruptive influence of Darkness Shines on the wikipedia environment during that time should also be taken into account. Usually I'm too hesitant to censor other books on wikipedia, even if justifiable, but the experience with Edit warring The "edit warring" was one (un, uno, yksi, ein, en, um, jeden, isa) revert on my part (of course accompanied with a talk page comment). Vanamonde claims two reverts, but the first link was not a revert, but me adding the NPOV tag. Only the second edit counts as one revert.
With rollback I meant automatic messages like "Undid revision XYZ". He reverts my edits on the BJP page so often, instead of first discussing them, or of adding tags to improve in the article, that I get discouraged editing the article at all. The problem is not that I am discussing the neutrality issues, the problem is that Vanamonde is not willing to fix them. Sometimes I think he just doesn't care. I told him: "Most of my concerns I already voiced months ago. I told you already then that one single sentence about Integral Humanism is by far not enough and even pointed you to sources, you could have fixed that during these months. You could also have asked yourself what could you do to make the article more neutral. Special care must be taken for npov for existing political parties, this has not yet been taken in this article." Integral Humanism is the official policy of the BJP. The article only included one single sentence on it. When I'm pointing this stuff out, Vanamonde now complains it is disruption. Similar accusations could be made against Vanamonde (note that I don't find these serious enough to open a case against Vanamonde, and that is why I am marking it as "small", but they are at about the same level as those he is using against me): The MSM book "Religion and Human rights" says: after the Sabarmati Express train was forcibly stopped at Godhra Ciy and burned by a Muslim mob, resulting in the fiery deaths of 59 Hindu passengers mostly women, children, and seniors returning from the holy city of Ayodhya." But after the train burning, there were conspiracy theories that the Hindus burnt themselves suicidally for a staged trigger for riots, or that it was an accident that they were cooking something in the train, or that they provoked the attack, or that they were guilty and got what they deserved. But 30 Muslims have been convicted of the burning. India is not country like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or China, India is a democracy and in a country like India it would have been impossible for such a high profile case to convict 30 Muslims when they were innocent. There would have been riots all over the country. But Vanamonde is trying in several places to make appear the controversy that it was an accident as the dominant version, and the court conviction as not so important that it even needs to be considered in a summary. So there may be something wrong with how Vanamonde is using sources. Other users have told him on this issue that he using outdated sources: One user told him: "Her commentary is also outdated. The most comprehensive investigation represented by the Nanavati-Shah Commission was not completed at that time, and the court convictions of the accused had not taken place either. Now that we have all that additional information, her conclusions seem quite out of place in 2014." Talk:Godhra_train_burning/Archive_2 Vanamondes editing was also criticized here [90] "This is not the first time either. " or here and probably many other places [91] The Partition and the Bangladesh Liberation War were the two cases of communalism with the largest numbers of victims, most of the victims of the latter were Hindus. Vanamondes simly removes this second-most important case.[92] Then VAnamonde is accusing me of editing BLP article. But most of my edits were removing BLP violations. On articles of BJP politicians, he is slanting the article to an overtly negative pov, like in Amit Shah, Uma Bharti, possibly LK Advani, and others. [93] The BJP article stated: Anju Gupta, an police officer in charge of Advani's security on the day of the demolition, appeared as a prominent witness before the commission. She stated that Advani and Joshi made provocative speeches that were a major factor in the mob's behaviour. But in this source, [94], it is said that the " BJP on Monday termed as "false" the statement of senior IPS officer Anju Gupta in a court against L K Advani over Babri Mosque demolition and said the veteran leader did not give any speech on the day the structure was razed down. " (on this one I'm not completely sure if it was Vanamonde, but he will say if it was not him). I believe there were other misrepresentations by Vanamonde and some discussed on the BJP talkpage . AP may better know about these.
Would I open a case against Vanamonde because of this? Probably not, but this is Vanamonde is doing here. Will provide more in the next days. --Calypsomusic (talk) 13:08, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by AmritasyaPutra[edit]
Statement by Kautilya3[edit]From my point of view, the most concerning aspect of Calypsomusic's behaviour is that they blocked a GA nomination (of Bharatiya Janata Party) by edit-warring in the midst of a GA review (diff, diff, protected). They claimed that the article was not written from NPOV but failed to substantiate this: Talk:Bharatiya Janata Party#Neutrality of this article isdisputed. They do not appear to understand the meaning of scholarly consensus and ignore the guidelines about reliable third party sources. Despite our repeated explanations, they continue to cite sources closely allied with the Bharatiya Janata Party or fringe sources that are not accepted by the consensus of Wikipedia editors (diff and my analysis). This is what prompted my notification to them of the ARBIPA sanctions (diff), but there has been no noticeable effect of it on their talk page discussions (diff, diff). Their knowledge seems limited to these questionable sources, and they are in no frame of mind to accept the widely accepted scholars such as Ramachandra Guha. Their continued participation on this page and other Hindu nationalist topics is disruptive. I support a topic ban. Kautilya3 (talk) 09:04, 26 March 2015 (UTC) The sources that Calypsomusic wants to use in writing the article on Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) are:
If the views of these sources, who are all very close to the subject at hand, are not represented in the article, he deems that the article is not neutral. If any criticism of BJP is not balanced by including positive comments on BJP, he deems that it is not neutral. This has been going on since March 2014 (diff). Kautilya3 (talk) 13:32, 27 March 2015 (UTC) Calypsomusic and AmritasyaPutra would like to make it appear as if this is a "content dispute" or dispute about "neutrality", but it is in reality an unwillingness to read and follow WP:RS and WP:NPOV. They ignore the prescription that the sources must be reliable, third-party, (published) sources. They ignore the fact that NPOV means representing such sources fairly and proportionately. Kautilya3 (talk) 21:00, 27 March 2015 (UTC) AmritasyaPutra says I am using Koenraad Elst "selectively". Assuming that I do, that is precisely what one must do with a fringe source, evaluate each piece of information, carefully separate facts from interpretations, and look for corroboration from other sources. The fact that he and Calypsomusic don't care do that is precisely how they turn Wikipedia into a battleground for their POVs. Calypsomusic has now gone to unprecedented lengths by effectively exercising a veto on GA nominations of this page by edit-warring. This can't allowed to continue. Kautilya3 (talk) 12:06, 29 March 2015 (UTC) The latest reponse by Calypsomusic again illustrates my point. "How on earth can this be neutral?," he says, while completely ignoring the prescription to refer to "high-quality, independent, reliable secondary sources" for using the {{NPOV}} tag. Kautilya3 (talk) 21:57, 31 March 2015 (UTC) @Zero0000: Can you also provide your opinion on Calypsomusic's idea of NPOV? If not, this deadlock is likely to continue. Kautilya3 (talk) 11:33, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Ugog Nizdast[edit]I have been involved with this mainly through the 2015 BJP-related conduct dispute and its previous GA nomination. After the RFC and discussion died down, it took six months to get a willing GA reviewer. Finally, when the review was almost complete, Calypsomusic effectively disrupted it by coming out of dormancy and posting walls of text (diff) questioning its neutrality. The review had to close solely because Calypsomusic made the article unstable. Efforts to bring a fruitful discussion were in vain, three of us, plus the GA reviewer (diff, diff, diff), all agreed that there were no concerns regarding the article unless sources could be presented otherwise. Calypsomusic's recent rfc and POV tag (diff, diff). Vanamonde has brought the BJP article a long way since 2013 (major contributor) and till now was to forced to mollify (diff, diff, diff, diff) Calypsomusic to be able to get it GA passed. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 12:01, 26 March 2015 (UTC) (apologies, diff links added later, first time giving statement here. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 13:19, 26 March 2015 (UTC))
Statement by uninvolved Kingsindian[edit]I have no comment on the case itself, but I suggest that Calypsomusic should read WP:TLDR. Also, whatever happened to the 500 word limit for statements at WP:AE? Perhaps the template should make it Large instead of small, since I doubt anyone reads it now. Kingsindian ♝♚ 15:28, 1 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Calypsomusic[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Yozer1
[edit]To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Yozer1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Yozer1 (talk) 06:55, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- One-Year block to edit logged here.
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- EdJohnston (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- I'm aware of this appeal, since I copied it from Yozer1's user talk. EdJohnston (talk) 04:41, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Yozer1
[edit]Please consider removing the one-year block to edit as there was a misunderstanding during the imposition, and the one-year block to edit is unwarranted for all topics of Wikipedia. Thank you. -Yozer1 (talk) 06:55, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by EdJohnston
[edit]Yozer1 had first been mentioned in the WP:ARBAA2 log in May, 2013 due to some edits about the Armenian genocide. This caused him to be notified of ARBAA2. The indefinite topic ban of User:Yozer1 from WP:ARBAA2 was issued in November, 2013 per an AE discussion here. Yozer1 had some trouble adhering to his ban and wound up getting a one-year AE block from User:Toddst1 in December, 2013. After his block expired in December 2014, he resumed editing and was OK for a while. In March 2015 he began clashing with User:Kansas Bear and started leaving hostile talk page comments. (Kansas Bear often edits on Armenian topics). Yozer1 accused KB of having 'issues with reality' and 'Armenian tendencies.'
- Yozer1 originally left the comment about Kansas Bear’s Armenian tendencies’ here, at 18:20 on 3 April. This the one that he heads with “Issues with reality.”
- I was hoping to avoid an immediate block to enforce the ban. I invited him to remove the comment here, at 02:16 on 4 April.
- Please remove this personal attack against User:Kansas Bear. Since you are under a topic ban from WP:ARBAA2, there is no excuse for you to comment on any Armenian matters, or to accuse others of editing with 'Armenian tendencies'. Please remember that your last block was for one year. Don't tempt fate by showing us that you are still continuing with your former ways. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 02:16, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
- 3. He replied to my request at 08:17 on 4 April in the thread you can still see at User talk:Yozer1#Personal attack should be removed. He did not remove the ‘Armenian tendencies’ comment. At that point I decided that Yozer1 was not going to change his position and issued the block, which occurred at 02:00 on April 5. On his own initiative, Kansas Bear had removed Yozer1's ‘Armenian tendencies’ comment from his own talk page at 00:42 on 5 April.
The clash with Kansas Bear happened at Islamic Golden Age, from which Yozer1 is not banned. Y and KB got into a disagreement about how to describe the Mamluks of Egypt. This led to the unexpected remark about Armenian tendencies. But the altercation reinforces my impression that Yozer1 doesn't recognize the ban and is simply continuing his old ways, the ones that originally led to the the sanction. The AE ban from November 2013 is still in effect. If Yozer1 would exhibit a genuine change of heart, that would give confidence he will observe the ban in the future, I think the AE block might be reconsidered. EdJohnston (talk) 04:41, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
[edit]Statement by (involved editor 2)
[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Yozer1
[edit]Result of the appeal by Yozer1
[edit]- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Recommend declining appeal. First, I see no reason to lift and Yozer1 gives none (in fact his recent unblock appeal[95] provides the opposite). Second, I see no misunderstanding in Ed's actions, rather from what I can see Ed's actions were commensurate to Yozer1's. Finally Ed has provided a road-map for lifting but it is not being followed--Cailil talk 13:53, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
Tarc's editing restriction
[edit]Closing as no action--Zad68 14:59, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
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Tarc is under editing restrictions, as described here:
The scope of the standard topic ban includes the following:
There is currently a possible move discussion at Talk: Hillary Rodham Clinton, which Tarc opposes and has opposed for the last couple of years. Tarc has repeatedly explained that large reasons for his opposing the page move are based on his opinions about gender-related disputes or controversies (in particular, the use of Clinton's married name and not her maiden name):
Even today, Tarc has become quite strongly involved in the discussion:
Does this editing, or would his continuation of this kind of editing, breach his restrictions on gender-related issues? 31.54.156.31 (talk) 19:30, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Tarc[edit]I'm not sure what admins will want to do with this broken-formatted, bad-faith request (an IP editor versed in Arb restrictions and 2 years-worth of past comments of mine? This is clearly either a banned user or a logged-out grudge-holder), but briefly;
Is this a gender issue?[edit]Tarc wrote above that this is not a gender issue. Here are just a few of the many quotations taken from the move request that suggest otherwise. The first point includes a remark from Jimmy Wales and the second is from the closer of the move request source:
WP:COMMONNAME does come into it, but so do many gender-related disputes. 31.54.156.31 (talk) 20:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Comment by Rhoark[edit]I give it about 50/50 whether this is someone trying to PoV railroad Tarc out of the Clinton topic, or someone being POINTY again about the scope of the GG sanction. Rhoark (talk) 21:59, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Comment by (other user)[edit]Result of this matter[edit]
We have agreement this isn't actionable, closing as no action. |
Ninetoyadome
[edit]| Ninetoyadome blocked one |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ninetoyadome[edit]
The user violated the 24-hour 1RR on the indefinitely semi-protected article Caucasian Albania. The user also fails to assume good faith, which is particularly important in such sensitive topics. For explanation and diffs, see "Additional comments".
The user has been previously blocked for edit-warring in AA2-related articles: Prior to that, the user had received a warning for edit-warring and non-neutral editing in AA2-related articles:
Despite placing a controversial template in the article, the user ceased to participate in the discussion after leaving only two comments. Further questions raised on the talkpage were not addressed. After a reasonable period of two weeks (during which Ninetoyadome appeared active on other articles), I removed the template, which prompted Ninetoyadome to instantly reappear and restore it, without leaving a word on the talkpage. My attempt to draw his attention to the talkpage by summarising my pending argument in the edit summary did not yield much: the user reverted the page for the second time in the 24-hour period, once again without bothering to explain his actions on the talkpage and contenting himself to the comment "That's your opinion" in the edit summary. Ninetoyadome's failure to assume good faith is evident from the fact that he insisted on keeping the "History of Armenia" template in the article for the duration of the discussion, despite much opposition. Yet previously he refused any attempts to keep the "History of Azerbaijan" template there on the same conditions [96], [97]. Furthermore, just recently, when it came to the "History of Azerbaijan" template in a different article, he kept deleting it [98], [99], [100], [101], [102], [103] until the end of the discussion (in which he began participating only after his fifth revert, under the threat of being reported). I find this bad-faith-motivated inconsistency extremely disruptive. The user was previously blocked for a week. Hence I believe a stricter sanction would be suitable to put an end to such dangerous behaviour. In general, the productivity of this user's contribution to improving the content of the articles remains a rather questionable matter to me. His activity on Wikipedia in the past eight months has been limited almost exclusively to reverts: [104].
Discussion concerning Ninetoyadome[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Ninetoyadome[edit]The reason i added the History of Armenia template to the article because Parishan added the History of Azerbaijan template. I stated the History of Azerbaijan template should not be added as Azerbaijan has nothing to do with Caucasian Albania. The user still persisted by claiming it has to do with territory, current Republic of Azerbaijan is located on the territory that used to belong to Caucasian Albania. In that case the History of Armenia template should be added as Armenia has had a lot of influence on the Caucasian Albanians and, as Parishan claimed with territory, Armenia controlled parts of the Caucasian Albanian territory. Also Parishan claims there was "much" opposition but it was only he/she and one other user while 3 users were for it. Ninetoyadome (talk) 04:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by Tiptoethrutheminefield[edit]There seems to be a lot of what seems like tit for tat deletions and insertions going on across several articles. There is also some removal of historical names going on across several articles. I don't see why there should not be a "History of Armenia" template on the Caucasian Albania article, and I don't see why there should not be a "History of Azerbaijan" template on the Atropatene article. Maybe the editors should step back a bit and consider what these templates are for. They are just there to aid Wikipedia readers locate related articles. I don't think the criteria for having them being there should be that tight since they are not statements on territorial or historical claims and counter claims by modern Armenia or modern Azerbaijan. Maybe the answer is to get impartial advice on the appropriate use of these templates and for the various involved editors to agree to abide by that advice. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 02:52, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Ninetoyadome[edit]
Sanctions applied and logged. |
Infantom
[edit]This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Infantom
[edit]- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Opdire657 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:51, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Infantom (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBPIA :
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 11 April 2015 Removing words linked to Palestine and replace it with Israel which came into existence in 1948
- 6 April 2015 Denying the existence of Arab Jews
- 16 November 2014 Adding Land of Israel - clearly POV pushing
- 27 September 2014 Removing article related to Palestinian football again
- 30 September 2014 Adding Israeli Jews to an unrelated article and removing Palestinian people
- 13 September 2014 Adding Hebrew translation despite being unrelated
- 13 September 2014 Removing words linked to Palestine and replace it with Israel which came into existence in 1948
- 16 June 2014 Adding article unrelated to Israeli football
- 16 June 2014 Removing article related to Palestinian football
- 16 June 2014 Adding categories about Israel
- 10 June 2014 Adding Land of Israel
- 4 June 2014 Denying Palestine's existence
- 30 May 2014 Denying Palestine's existence; Replacing it with Ottoman Syria
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- 11 February 2015 Blocked for violating WP:1RR on Israeli cuisine for 48 hours
- 11 July 2014 Blocked for one week due to sockpuppetry using Guy355
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
- Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
- Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by Username (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
- Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date
- Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.
- Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Since he began editing Wikipedia either with his new account or the old one it has been very hard to communicate with him. He is stubborn and don't like to be disagreed. He is also interested in denying Palestine and the Palestinian people as can be seen here.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Infantom
[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Infantom
[edit]This is completely ridiculous. I warned Opdire657 that if he doesn't start a discussion and reach consensus regarding Mandatory Palestine national football team he will be reported. And What did he do? Reported all my edits (over the months and years) that he didn't like, adding ridiculous allegations. That's the first time i am encountering this editor so his "Additional comments" are nonsense (though his childish arguments remind me the user Uishaki). I have nothing else to say about this ludicrous attempt, except that i have never been blocked for sockpuppetry. --Infantom (talk) 15:22, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
- The block was a mistake and i was unblocked, from some reason you decided to ignore it. Denying Arab Jews? So far not even one source has been added to support this controversial claim of "Arab Jew"; regarding the recent edit in Arabs, i added several sources to support my edit. There is not a real case against me for that matter. Infantom (talk) 16:59, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
User:EdJohnston, given the fact that Jews are an ethnic group with distinctive culture and history, the term "Arab Jew" is very dubious. No source was given to support the claim of Arab Jew, and eventually i provided my own sources to support my claim (i should have done in the first edit though). As for Mandatory Palestine national football team, i started a discussion and requested for sources, if no source will be provided i will revert again. (BTW, i would seriously consider to check if Opdire657 is a sockpuppet of Uishaki) Thanks. Infantom (talk) 00:52, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by RolandR
[edit]Despite Infantom's protestations above, it is absolutely clear that s/he has indeed been blocked for sockpuppetry. The editor is in addition POV editing and edit-warring on several articles to remove reference to the indigenous status of Palestinian Arabs,[106] to deny that there are Jewish Arabs,[107][108][109] and to repeat contentious edits.[110][111]. RolandR (talk) 16:46, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by AcidSnow
[edit]Here is another diff where he oddly removes Arab Jews with zero explanation: [112]. This diff is from 7 March which isn't too long ago. AcidSnow (talk)
Statement by Rhoark (uninvolved)
[edit]This has all the surface appearance of passive-aggressive PoV pushing, but looking closer into related articles, the edits seem reasonable. Most of the altered references to Palestine pertain to British Mandatory Palestine, the direct predecessor state of the modern State of Israel. Arab Jew is a 20th century term that would be anachronistic to apply to a claim about 6th century Islam. At the time of the Battle of Beersheba, Beersheba was indeed a territory of Ottoman Syria. Unless there were specific talk page consensus that these edits went against, I think the issue here is just that the editor needs to leave better explanatory notes. Rhoark (talk) 19:28, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Kingsindian
[edit]There are very old diffs in the report, which seems to have been cobbled together without much rhyme or reason. It is notable that there has not been a single talk page comment by Opdire657 or Infantom on this matter on the Mandatory Palestine national football team page, which seems to be the trigger for this escalation to WP:AE. I suggest a trout to both and an admonishment to use the talk page more often. I mostly agree with Rhoark above, however some of the edits are dubious, especially diff 5. However it is a very stale diff. Kingsindian ♝♚ 19:44, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
Statement by username
[edit]Result concerning Infantom
[edit]- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- It appears that User:Callanecc and User:Yunshui decided that Infantom was *not* employing User:Guy355 as a sock in July 2014, contrary to what was originally concluded in WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Infantom/Archive. I suggest that Infantom should consider archiving his talk page instead of deleting messages. The record of his exoneration from the sock charges is buried in his talk page history. EdJohnston (talk) 03:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- There are the usual debates about the nuances of 'Palestine'. It does appear that Palestine League mostly consisted of Jewish footballers and existed prior to 1948, so Infantom's edit about that seems defensible. Infantom has engaged in borderline edit warring about the definition of 'Arab Jew'. For example see his four edits at Arabs beginning with this one on April 6. His claim that 'Jews are not Arabs' appears to be circular reasoning. If you set up the definitions in a certain way, then Arabs can't be Jews. I'm uncertain if that needs any action here, except possibly a warning. EdJohnston (talk) 14:58, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- Agree with Ed here, the most (and at a stretch) we can do here is give a warning but I'd inclined to warned both Infantom and Opdire657--Cailil talk 15:09, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
- With my football hat on, the edits by Infantom are entirely correct - the Israeli FA is the successor to the Mandate-era FA (FIFA's website notes that the affiliation year for the IFA is 1929). The behaviour of other editors at Mandatory Palestine national football team who are continuing to insert linkage to the current Palestinian national team (affiliated to FIFA in 1998) should be reviewed though – it's either knee-jerk reverting or trying to make a WP:POINT. Number 57 11:20, 14 April 2015 (UTC)