Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive110
Nagorno-Karabakh
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I'm not going to file a request against one particular person, because we have a situation where disruption is caused by more than one user. I would like to draw the attention of the community to what is going on in the article Nagorno-Karabakh. This is a very troubled article that was a subject to a number of arbitration cases. For quite a while now it is an arena of endless edit wars, which are waged by a number of recently created or brand new user accounts, which try to push a version, originally created by the banned user Xebulon, who has been disrupting Wikepedia for years. What is going on there was described in much detail by the admin Golbez, who has been watching this article for many years: [1] I will not repeat here what Golbez has already said, please check his account of the events. The CU showed no connection between the accounts engaged there, yet it is quite obvious that something is going there, and that actions of all those accounts are coordinated. The most recent example, the account of User:23x2, who never edited Nagorno-Karabakh, pops up out of nowhere to rv: [2] And it is nothing unusual, this happens in this article all the time. The edits of the banned user are restored by users who have been inactive for a long time, or who have never edited this article before. I listed a number of edit warring accounts at my own SPI request that I by coincidence filed at the same time as Golbez did: [3] All those accounts look pretty much the same, act the same, and edit the same. I have a strong impression that they are all operated by the same person, who somehow manages to evade the CU. But even if we assume that it is not one person, but different ones, it is still quite obvious that their actions are well coordinated, and they keep on bringing in new accounts to edit war. I think this article should be placed under some sort of community control, and no edits that have no consensus should be allowed. Also, the activity of accounts that previously never edited this article should be restricted. I would even recommend that only well established accounts with at least 1 year of active contributions to Wikipedia, including outside of AA conflict, should be allowed to edit such contentious articles as Nagorno-Karabakh. I was advised to raise this issue here, which is what I do now. Grandmaster 23:17, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
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76.102.173.102
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Request concerning 76.102.173.102[edit]
Discussion concerning 76.102.173.102[edit]Statement by 76.102.173.102[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning 76.102.173.102[edit]Just use WP:DIGWUREN -- this would clearly fit this area. Also this edit is enough to show that this is nothing more than a wannabe-troll. Oleh Antoniv -- really? Block IP, and be done with it. Russavia ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) 00:03, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning 76.102.173.102[edit]
Obvious troll is obvious. I'm blocking the IP for 5 days for the obvious NPA violations and will issue a WP:DIGWUREN notification. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 00:35, 26 February 2012 (UTC) |
Dalai lama ding dong
[edit]| Dalai lama ding dong blocked 24 hours, and AndresHerutJaim blocked 2 weeks; both also banned from Palestine-Israeli conflict topic area for 90 days |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Dalai lama ding dong[edit]
Clear 1RR violation and edit warring the same goes with user:AndresHerutJaim.Both users probably should be blocked and article protected.I am not sure about topic bans.--Shrike (talk) 14:02, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Dalai lama ding dong[edit]Statement by Dalai lama ding dong[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Dalai lama ding dong[edit]Result concerning Dalai lama ding dong[edit]
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Zenanarh
[edit]| Zenanarh (talk · contribs) topic-banned from articles relating to the former Yugoslavia for six months. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 04:09, 4 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Zenanarh[edit]
This has been brought here from request for arbitration (RFAR) by the request of the arbitrators. Click the link in the header "Violation" for more information on the violations. Zenanarh has been sockpuppeting through anonymous IP addresses as confirmed by Elen of the Roads in the aforesaid link, so it is currently difficult to notify and/or track Zenanarh's actions. A suitable solution would be either a) blocking Zenanarh, b) topic banning Zenanarh, or c) emplacing an interaction ban between Zenanarh (and all sockpuppets) and Silvio1973 (because these two are the ones who usually have conflict with each other. I think this would be the most effective).
Discussion concerning Zenanarh[edit]Yes. I agree with EdJohnston as well. Can we also have this template: {{Article discretionary sanctions}} be put on the three articles as a reminder to the editors? Whenaxis talk · contribs | DR goes to Wikimania! 19:23, 1 March 2012 (UTC) Statement by Zenanarh[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Zenanarh[edit]Result concerning Zenanarh[edit]
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Rejedef
[edit]| I have, with some trepidation (all the rules about AE scare me, I'm sure I'm going to do something wrong and be desysopped and then shot and then desysopped again) blocked Rejedef indefinitely. This is explicitly not an AE action; I find Elen's comment (that this is not in the spirit of what DIGWUREN was meant to cover) compelling. Thus there's nothing left to keep me from enacting my originally-intended non-AE block for long-term disruption. If anyone disagrees, feel free to modify the block without my further input. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:54, 7 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Rejedef[edit]
Discussion concerning Rejedef[edit]I find all of it incomprehensible and very biased. I am severely disadvantaged because I have no contacts on Wikipedia, and only this form of support (other user's support) is apparently accepted. Why don't you delete my account, as I wanted? --Rejedef (talk) 03:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC) Statement by Rejedef[edit]I have nothing to say but direct to resources that will speak for me best, although there is a number of them. A travel over Europe is also compulsory to be able to write about it anything. Number 1. Milan Kundera's essay: 'The tragedy of Central Europe': is.cuni.cz/studium/predmety/index.php?do=down&did=18219 Number 2. Christopher Lord, Central Europe: Core or Periphery? http://www.ce-review.org/00/36/books36_nilsson.html Number 3. Larry Wolff, Inventing Eastern Europe: The Map of Civilization on the Mind of the Enlightenment, book Number 4. Michal Buchowski, The Specter of Orientalism in Europe: From Exotic Brother to Stigmatized Brother: http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/anthropological_quarterly/v079/79.3buchowski.html Number 5. Provincializing Europe: Postcolonial Thought and Historical Difference http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8507.html Number 6. Scholarship http://amu.edu.pl/en/year-at-amu/a-year-at-amu/amu-pie/offer/amu-pie-offer-20102011-winter-semester/european-orientalism Does any of you have any paper to say that we should still use the term 'Eastern' and 'Western Europe' and if you have one, did the same author changed his opinion over time, like Timothy Garton Ash, or admitted actually no expertise on 'orientalism' (or European semi-orientalism), being under fire from the critics like Edward Said? --Rejedef (talk) 02:10, 5 March 2012 (UTC) Problems with editing All changes were justified. National geographic is popularising (lat.populus-mass, people) science. It is meant to be simplistic and negligent. There is a lot of problem with it, not only including Reading National Geographic, Catherine Lutz and Jane Collins but also@ http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138051#.T1Qrl_GDj8c http://www.countercurrents.org/lieberman120507.htm http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/taxlr41&div=22&id=&page= It admits it has a viewpoint: http://www.nationalgeographic.com/xpeditions/lessons/18/g912/readingnews.html shall I find more resources? Also, the atlas was published in 1999 when the geopolitics of Europe was just 10 years after the start of communism fall? If the book was published in 1999, then the date would have been at least 1 year old. We must always look at the newest resources. Imagine that few countries emerged in Europe since 1999, namely Montenegro and Kosovo, which is quite controversial to date. In addition Yugoslavia ceased to exist. Why don't you look at Collins Atlas of the World published in 2011? --Rejedef (talk) 03:20, 5 March 2012 (UTC) Additional comments by editor filing complaint 'Eastern European' is a subtle racial slur, this is why it should be removed, unless it is accurate. The more acceptable is geographical 'eastern European'; still, it relates to predominantly European Russia (as the centre of Europe is located in Lithuania or Estonia). 'Eastern Europe' is a synonym for nasty adjectives. Similarily, yet less commonly, Western European is also relegating but it is not perceived as a slur that often, as a synonym of 'shallow', 'stupid' or 'immoral'. It is illegal in EU law to not to have the opportunity to be forgotten, including just deleting your account. My edits have been NOT disruptive at all. I find the critics totally incomprehensible. --Rejedef (talk) 03:20, 5 March 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Rejedef[edit]Result concerning Rejedef[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by FkpCascais
[edit]| Appeal unsuccessful. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:18, 11 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
Statement by FkpCascais[edit]I come here gentleman in order to appeal to the sanction I was imposed to. I beleave the decition was precipitated and the involved administrators have been mislead and may also have confused me with the actions of another user. I decided now to follow the recomendation of the sanction imposing admin and appeal here at AE, along with the recomendation of another admin who was uninvolved in this episode who advised me to acknolledge and apologise for my mistakes. I wouldn´t have had any problems to follow the advice, and I am willing to do it as I am a person who acknolledges his mistakes, however, after numerous examinations by my side of all the events, I really don´t see one single fault on my behalve, and I see acusations wrongly attributed to me, not to say that my actions were actually positive and recomended by the policies. The problem is that the accusations are vague, none concrete diffs of evidence were presented to me despite numerous requests on my behalve, and I see no policy having been broken in any action of mine. All the time I asked for evidence for the charges against me, I was not provided any specific diffs, and allways when I presented diffs showing the charges were not appropriate I was allways provided with other unfounded charges. I will explain the events:
Now, as far as I see, I was sanctioned for Wikipedia:TE and Wikipedia:FORUMSHOP. I didn´t edited the article, neither I beleave I had recently, including years time, any edits which would be considered tendentious. My attitude at the discussion is not tendentious either, but I rather back my position with policies. It is actually the other side, which has a completelly tendentious approach to the entire subject and which actually edits by searching the most extreme wording and gives it maximal importance. The tendentious nature of editing can clearly bee seen in this exemple:
The Chetniks were a monarchic resistance movement in Yugoslavia during WWII, opposed to the communist Partisans, and what happends is that during the war they engaged in both, resiatnce and collaboration acts, as that was basically a war of all vs all. Now, as the royal family was Serbian, and most members of them were Serbs, Croatians, like Direktor and Producer and probably others, tend to exagerate for most their collaboration activities, while deniying them their resistance ones. Also, whoever opposes the Croatian POV on this is immediatelly declared as "Serbian nationalist" by him, as he often did and as many users can confirm. The extremism of Direktor went as far as trying to remove the Yugoslav flag from the royal period from the Flag of Yugoslavia article, and when one user opposed him, he inmediatelly accused him as seen in his first comment here: Talk:Flag_of_Yugoslavia#The_flags_of_the_Kingdom_of_Yugoslavia_should_be_restored_to_the_article. Now, for some time the only way to get the article to work fine was to separate the articles, by recomendation of admin Zscout370, and you can see that shortly after you imposed me a ban, Direktor went to the article and changed it despite opposition of other users. This is how it looked before, we had two articles, just as many other countries in this situation have:
Now, after Direktors edits and Producer participated as well, we have one article: Flag of Yugoslavia. (Link in case someone changes it: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Flag_of_Yugoslavia&diff=472069226&oldid=472013447) See the royal flag at bottom and the communist ones well displayed? How can one be more tendetious than that? Should I explain that as much as Direktor may want to convince you that I am "tendentious", I dare to say that I am all but nationalist. I live for more than 25 years out of the region, and in a place where I don´t have many Yugoslavs at all. Also, in this particular dispute Chetniks/Partisans ; Royalists/Communists I am completelly free, as my father side of the family were moderate monarchists, while my mother side were Tito fans (my grandfather even worked and travelled with the guy). However the problem here has to do with the fact that a number of users disguised as anti-nationalists are promoting their own extreme views, and I am being punished for opposing them. I am defending the NPOV in the interest of WP, and I challenge anyone to present one edit of mine where the contrary can be seen. The major problem is that because you gentleman have lack of time and patience to get involved and check facts, the side using agressivity and manipulation gets their way. So by removing me you think you are providing peace, but you are actually leaving room for all those extreme views and biases to get unchallenged. I could provide you plenty of exemples of these. For instance, they massivelly edited the Chetniks article unopposed, and you can just make a test, see our article here on WP and see the Britannica one... Now, I apologise to this lenghty post, but this is not easy to explain. I usually work alone, so I don´t have "friendly" admins supporting me, but I supposed I would never need them, because I agree and follow all WP principles and policies. I only had 2 blocks and they were years back, both related to Direktor, while I got 1 ARBMAC warning, which was attributed to all participants of one discussion, and the 1RR/48 hours sanction which was also in a dispute with Direktor, which was given to me at a report Direktor made without notifiying me, and with the decition being made without me even knowing what was happening. What happend was that I made one edit and 2 reverts in a article, and Direktor reported me for edit-warring. Assuming he was right, I got that sanction, but when I analised the events, I even noteced Direktor had made 4 reverts in the same period, and even the admin, FPS I think, acknolledge it when I explained it, but nothing was corrected. That sanction passed to me unnoteced, as I am not an edit-warrior, and that fact should even work in my favour, as I honestly doubt who would pass that sanction without breaking it of any of the other usual intervenients. And those sanctions are used against me, so I find it unfair, unfair to have now another one, without knowing exactly why. Now, I may have not proceded the best way regarding AniMate, but I honestly didn´t knew what to do, and the episode was definitelly worth reporting as it was not cool at all to try to turn things againts me in the report by using phalse statements. I will be more carefull in the future, and I will try my best not to react while heated from another dispute in such situations. But regarding my reports, I am sorry, but I do feel they were the best response. In all of them, I am actually asking for help, for someone to assist us at the discussion as way to avoid further personal remarcs and trolling images being displayed to me. I actually fought hard not to respond in that hard environment, and I didn´t, but instead I reported disruption and asked for help. I tryined to explain this to WGFinley and EdJohnston, but it is very much possible that my disapointed-mad-a-like approach didn´t help me at all. But I do feel that the situation is extremely unfair, because not only I don´t quite understand why exactly was I punished (and it was punishement, because I had been out of all discussions for weeks when the sanction was imposed, so it was not preventive in any way as advised by policies), but rather the other side had all their attitutes rewarded, and you can all see they didn´t lost time to undo many consensuses when found themselfs alone. So his action directly influenced a thin balance that was somehow found in a dispute, awarding one of the sides. The report itself was basically the collection of all of mine most polemical comments for the last year or so, and they are the worste one can digg about me, and even so I dare to say that I don´t see anything out of policy at any of the diffs. Much less to deserve an extremely harsh 6 months ban. I beleave all the trust was provided to them, and actually none of my actions were seen in detail and in context. I really hope you provide me at least some credit. I apoligise for the enormous comment, but this is really painfull for me. FkpCascais (talk) 08:34, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Wgfinley[edit]In the interest of brevity I made all my points when I closed the prior AE case. It was up for several days for any uninvolved admins to comment, the only other one supported. I'm pretty sure the statements made in this appeal indicate the ban is still appropriate and there's no indication anything has been learned yet. --WGFinley (talk) 05:41, 9 March 2012 (UTC) Statement by Peacemaker67[edit]I'm afraid that Fkp's essay above does not adequately reflect his continual failure to bring sources for his edits. In this article space (Yugoslavia WW2), pushing a POV with no sources or one source that varies widely from others just doesn't cut it. Scholarly, reliable sources published outside the former Yugoslavia must be preferred over locally published and/or uncritical POV sources. Peacemaker67 (talk) 02:22, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Statement by PRODUCER[edit]Two months into his ban and Fkp still claims he has done nothing wrong and even threatens to report Peacemaker67 for simply voicing his opinion on the matter. If this shows anything, it is that he has learned absolutely nothing from this ban and will only continue this sort of behavior after the ban. He continues this view that he's on a battefield of sorts with a "me against them" mentality where we carry out "offensives" by simply posting. He assumes the worst in all the individuals who disagree with him, including admins, and views them as being out to get him. Evidently he's continued his forumshopping behavior where, after failing to persuade WGFinley [17] and EdJohnston [18] to unban him, he went off to get WGFinley blocked for "admin abuse" [19] and went to "lobby" another admin, GiantSnowman, to help him here. [20][21] -- ◅PRODUCER (TALK) 17:44, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Statement by Director[edit]I submit for everyone's review my above exchange with FkpCascais. The user asked for evidence. I directed him as to where he might find it. In response to this, FkpCascais "declares" matter-of-factly that if I do not post a diff right here and now, I'm "making ampty accusations in order to missinform". Of course, not only was he there when the evidence was first presented, but just a short while ago he was also informed as to where he may review it (several times by several other users). Even if I were to present the diffs here, FkpCascais' WP:BATTLEGROUND disposition makes it impossible for him to ever admit they constitute an infraction. FkpCascais can never ever admit he is actually wrong, either in his debates themselves, or on the issue of whether they constitute WP:TE (or any infraction whatsoever). The user is (perhaps unlike myself) a very polite and courteous person, and I dare say highly skilled at victimizing himself. That alone, however, does not absolutely nothing to mitigate his extremely disruptive influence. FkpCascais has not shown any willingness to correct the disruptive aspects of his behavior, or even accept the hypothetical possiblility that he might be in the wrong. Even now, as WGFinley suggests [22], he is in essence evading the topic ban through any means at his disposal (such as numerous user talkpages, and yes, even threads like this). Far from lifting it, this topic-banned ought to be extended, perhaps even indefinitely. If not, we will likely be back here shortly upon its expiration. -- Director (talk) 21:35, 10 March 2012 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by FkpCascais[edit]Result of the appeal by FkpCascais[edit]
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Tiamut
[edit]| Jaakobou indefinitely topic-banned. Jaakobou and Tiamut indefinitely interaction banned. T. Canens (talk) 04:18, 8 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Tiamut[edit]
Tiamut was among the involved parties in the original WP:ARBPIA and has been blocked for a week in 2010 following a WP:AE report (The block is missing from the Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Log_of_blocks_and_bans).
In the WP:ANI thread summarized here[23] all of the 5 uninvolved admins were unanimous in their view on this text. Reinsertion of the text by Tiamut after such a clear consensus is disruptive conduct. The talk page summary for this edit is, in my honest opinion, inappropriate as well. Extra Note 1: I'm hoping this thread will not devolve into a chain of like-minded editors (i.e. on the same side of the political fence), chanting "bogus!" in unison. In that regard, Gatoclass presenting a link to a spat I may have had with Tiamut in 2008 is a complete red herring. Would be nice if it were possible to have uninvolved admins dominate the discussion. @ErrantX: Here's the consensus view from uninvolved admins regarding the content:
It is quite shameful where some editors insist anti-Jewish propaganda is somehow conductive to the purpose of the project. This has very little to do with whether or not I interact with Tiamut (I don't). @ErrantX 2:
@Timotheus Canens,
@univolved admins,
Offtopic: I'm thinking that the block Tiamut incurred in 2010 should be added to the log file. JaakobouChalk Talk 19:54, 6 March 2012 (UTC) Tiamut has a history of defending antisemitic commentary: It is not often clear that comparing Jewish actions during the Arab-Israeli conflict with that of horrible historical large scale killings (e.g. colonial France in Algeria) is extremely offensive propaganda. While I have not acted in the best way, editors here have injected their political perspective in a way that tipped the debate in a certain seemingly inconclusive direction. But Tiamut has a history of defending antisemitic "undertones" and the content at the top of the talkpage clearly falls under WP:UP#POLEMIC. Had the wheel's been reversed and my page was decorated with a cleverly outlay-ed comparison of Palestinians with Nazis, I'm more then certain an outcry would soon follow.
Here Tiamut went as far as to, on article, push the narrative that Israel "enjoyed" the 9.11 attacks.[32] @Elen of the Roads,
Closing note[edit]Neither I not Tiamut have a clean bill of history but we're both contributing editors currently. I have made a bad mistake of approaching edits myself and perhaps presenting the ANI in a fashion not immediately understood, though I hope the above comment regarding Involved editors and "consensus" clarifies it a bit -- mostly with This Moment of Clarity. Considering this is a second time I file a complaint against Tiamut that has issues, I accept upon myself an IBAN from anything Tiamut related for at least a year regardless if it is imposed officially or not. Still, as far as I am concerned, the current matter boils down to whether or not that policy, about using the talkpage for ill purposes (WP:UP#POLEMIC]], has any meaning when someone puts text that suggests 'sharpening of weapons' and 'victory' against another race. Mine, in this case. If you haven't lost your entire family tree in Poland, then you might have a hard time understanding why, when someone called your single state a colonialist enterprise and equates it with the French colonialism in Algeria, offensive. This is what Tiamut's talkpage banner was doing and four uninvolved admins have clearly expressed requests/opinion to have The material taken down -- and it should be taken out. The only difference between a Hamas Sheikh saying Palestinians will drive the "descendants of apes and pigs" out of Palestine and Tiamut's talkpage welcome message is that the first alludes to an Islamic text (where Jews sin and are transformed to apes and pigs) and the latter used a book about the Algerian War of independence -- as their source material. This is wholly inappropriate as a welcome message to a talkpage and should be removed. Consider the following replacements and honestly say they are not a problem as a welcome message to talkpages:
My concerns, and misstep, are a result of the fact that propaganda in the Arab-Israeli conflict kills people. It is not something you can say "false" and move on.[36] Here is an example from just 20 hours ago in which a woman 'sharpened her weapon' and luckily got caught before she could kill someone.[37] Regardless of my own errors in the handling of this issue, these are wholly inappropriate as a welcome message to a talkpage and should be removed per WP:UP#POLEMIC.
I'm thinking someone else should do this considering Tiamut's demand was "don't touch my user page again"[38]
Discussion concerning Tiamut[edit]Statement by Tiamut[edit]Statement by Tiamut[edit]I'm going to try to keep this short, but may fail. My history of interaction with Jaakobou spans many years now, and has been singularly unpleasant, rather tiring, and all together unproductive. There was a time long ago when he could really get under my skin. I even kept a page titled User:Tiamut/Jaakobou in my user space at the ready to file at AE in the hopes putting an end to an editing pattern characterized by tendentiousness, mischaracterization, and unnecessary melodrama and hyperbole (the latter of which I can also be prone to from time to time, though less so I hope these days). In the last couple of years, despite attempts by Jaakobou to provoke me into engaging him (like the bogus AE report he filed last year), I have managed to avoid spending too much time dealing with him. I was surprised when he first deleted the quotes on my talk page, as he had raised the issue nowhere previously and they have been there for years. When Fox7 came to my talk page to ask me to remove the quotes, citing one part as particularly offensive, I removed the quote he had highlighted. I did this because I can see how it might be offensive to Jews who survived the Nazi holocaust. I did this despite knowing that Fox7's intvention was due to Jaakobou's chat canvassing, which he resorts to everytime he wants to get something done while bypassing the scrutiny of the community at large. Its something he has been doing for years, ever since the Arbcomm that led to the Israel/Palestine article being adjudicated here. An arbcomm that was in large part prompted by Jaakobou and my interactions at Palestinian fedayeen (see archive 1 of talk there) among other articles. His off wiki canvassing probably has a lot to do with how he has managed to stick around here so long without any serious sanctions. On the current issue, I do not feel that the quotes on my user talk page are so grossly offensive that they inhibit a collaborative editing environment here. I have productively edited Wikipedia with them on my page for years and have seldom heard a complaint about them. I can see how they might be offensive to someone who does not view Palestinians as equal (the first quote) or someone who thinks all Palestinians are terrorists (who can only read the first quote as a real threat) or someone who does not view Israel's actions in occuiped territory as colonial in nature (the second quote) or someone who sees political discourse as periphal to day to day life and the inclusion of political opinions as needlessly provocative or aggressive (all 3 quotes together). I'm willing to risk offending individuals from among these groups, not out of antipathy (though those who have problems recognizing Palestinian humanity aren't great loves of mine) but out a belief that being direct about one's sympathies is beneficial to the project. It cuts through the bullshit and it keeps my editing honest as it is subject to greater scrutiny. I try my best to keep my personal feelings in check when developing an article. I do try to express even those viewpoints I don't agree with, though I'm sure my own additions don't give them as full as an exposition as those viewpoints to which I am sympathetic. I think that's the case with everyone though, bar the most personally uninvested of individuals. Finally, I'd like to point out that Jaakobou is now claiming that the quotes on my user page are anti-semitic. In my opinion, this constitutes a personal attack. Even if one's world view (see above) could permit them to interpret the first and second quotes as having anti-semitic overtones, such an interpretaton fails completely on the third quote, which makes it crystal clear the issue is ideological. There is no doubt that Jaakobou is offended because his preferred ideology is being depicted in terms that are alien to soul. Too bad ... Zionism is alien to my soul, but I deal with it all the time in life and at Wikipedia. If he cannot countenance seeing the view expressed on my user talk page, he certainly cannot countenance it in article main space and very often doesn't, even when its expressed by reliable sources, which has been the root problem underlying most of our interaction over the years. I think I've said enough. and probably too much. I'd ask that after this AE is over, my user page on Jaakobou be deleted. I should not have kept it this long anyway. Tiamuttalk 18:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Tiamut[edit]Comment by Gatoclass[edit]Tiamut's (very longstanding) text box may or may not be considered too polemical, depending on one's POV, but given Jaakobou's history of harassment of Tiamut, he is absolutely the last person to be taking it upon himself to be making deletions of personalized content from her user page. How much longer is this user's WP:BATTLEGROUND conduct to be tolerated? Gatoclass (talk) 14:50, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Comment by Maunus[edit]User:Jaakobou is misrepresenting consensus by cherrypicking among the editors who commented Wikipedia:ANI#Polemic_material_at_User_talk:Tiamut and ingnoring that it was closed as "no consensus for removal". It seems clear that Jaakobou has a personal stake in this issue and cannot be trusted to act in good faith in this regard. I think this falls under WP:BOOMERANG and WP:BATTLEGROUND. And by the way I have no previous involvement with either Jaakobou, Tiamut or ARBPIA related articles.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 14:55, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Comment by asad[edit]This request should be speedily closed as it has nothing to do with a user requesting Arbitration Enforcement. -asad (talk) 15:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC) Comment by ZScarpia[edit]When I struck out a personal attack against another editor on an IP article talkpage, I was advised here that doing so was likely to be disruptive and therefore not a good idea. Jaakobou has now twice deleted text from another user's own talkpage which was not a personal attack, but which he/she merely found offensive personally. Could somebody, if they feel it is appropriate, please advise Jaakobou on the desirability or otherwise of his act. I think that it is reasonable that grossly offensive material is deleted, but I don't think that description fits the quotes that Jaakobou has been deleting. I should think that allowing the deletion of text which isn't grossly offensive isn't a precedent which it would be desirable to set in the IP area. Looking at Jaakobou's user talkpage, it looks to me as though insisting on editing other editor's talkpages over their objections has become a bit of a bad habit. ← ZScarpia 16:53, 6 March 2012 (UTC) Comment by Nil Einne[edit]Errant has already said nearly everything I wanted to say except to note that it's not clear foxj supported removal. foxj appears to believe it would be best if Tiamut voluntarily removes the content (or never posted it in the first place), as did some people in the ANI discussion and for that matter so do I. But from what I've seen, foxj has never opioned on whether the content should be removed if Tiamut doesn't do it voluntarily. I'm guessing they were hoping it wouldn't be an issue. It seems this probably isn't going to be the case which is unfortunate although similar to what Errant said on Jaakobou's actions preventing any chance of consensus, I'm guessing they also potentially turned Tiamut away from voluntarily cooperating. It seems likely HJ Mitchell and Black Kite (and probably all of those cited) don't consider Jaakobou's actions a good way to address the problem. Nil Einne (talk) 17:35, 6 March 2012 (UTC) Comment by Boing! said Zebedee[edit]As an uninvolved admin, I have just had a read over the ANI report, and there was clearly no 5/0 support for the removal of that content from Tiamut's Talk page. Yes, there were some people opining that it would be better if Tiamut removed it, but there was clearly no consensus in favour of any action such as forced removal. I really don't see how it could be read any other way - Jaakobou's "5/0" claims are at best a misunderstanding, and at worst tendentious. (I offer no opinion on Tiamut's quotes themselves.) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:47, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Comment by Fluffernutter[edit]At least one, and likely more than that, of the users involved in removing the content from Tiamut's talk page were acting on a specific request from Jaakobou, via IRC, that such action be taken. I saw him request removal twice - the first time, it seemed to be a standard case of someone looking for an admin to help them out via IRC, and it is indeed within the realm of reasonable actions to have disputed and removed the content, but after I saw him ask for someone to remove the content a second time, I spoke privately to Jaakobou and recommended that he use on-wiki processes instead of IRC to pursue this issue, as using IRC to handle it could appear to be forum-shopping or coordinating other editors into revert-warring on his behalf. For that reason, I was pleased to see the issue brought to ANI (and now AE) instead of back to IRC, but I share the concerns noted above that Jaakobou seems to be applying a healthy dose of POV to his analysis of the ANI thread, especially in regard to citing editors who acted at his request as supporting him. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 18:05, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
You're trying too hard to read something nasty into those words, I think. Tiamut's view is that Palestine is being oppressed by Israel; he is perfectly entitled to that view, and we allow editors some degree of leniency to express those views on talk pages. You may disagree with that viewpoint (and clearly you do) but the effort to which you are going to paint relatively mild political quotations as anti-semitic is concerning. Essentially what you are doing is exactly the thing you are complaining about (simply in another form). You've spent upwards of 50 edits in the last week pursuing this vendetta - and nothing else - and evidence is emerging that this is not the first incident. Rather than engage in an ideological battle (which I for one don't give two flying craps about in the context of Wikipedia, and I suspect the others feel the same) which simple has no obvious resolution, go and do some actual article work. You've had multiple warnings for much the same problems in the last couple of years, and the patience of editors will wear thin eventually. --Errant (chat!) 19:44, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Comment by Ravenswing[edit]One would think that an editor who has been placed on interaction bans, admonished and warned as often as he has would change his ways and become a less combative editor. While I have no say in what goes forward from here, this looks like a classic WP:BOOMERANG case, and I think that sanctions should go beyond an interaction ban - repeated reversions and attacks of this nature would have resulted in an indef block had a new editor been responsible, and experienced editors should be held to a higher standard of conduct than that. Ravenswing 19:13, 6 March 2012 (UTC) Comment by Tarc[edit]IMO this is a deliberate deception and misrepresentation of the ANI discussion, as one of the alleged 5 pointed out. Even if it were a legitimate finding following an ANI discussion, Jaakobou himself would never be allowed to be the one to make the reversion. That kind of in-your-face activity has seriously inflamed what should have been a straightforward discussion. Tarc (talk) 20:19, 6 March 2012 (UTC) Comment by Zero[edit]The material on Tiamut's personal talk page represents a political opinion. It is not more offensive than typical political opinions, and classifying it as "antisemitic" is a gross personal insult. People with opposite political opinions, like Jaakobou (whose political motivation here is blatantly obvious), won't like it. Given that there is no general policy against political opinions on user talk pages, Tiamut has no case to answer here. Jaakobou's behavior, on the other hand, is appalling as several other people have noted. Also, I don't agree that Tiamut's personal talk page is a page in the topic area of ARBPIA. Tiamut is in fact one of the best long term editors in the IP part of Wikipedia: very industrious and thorough, always looks for the best possible sources, etc etc. Zerotalk 23:11, 6 March 2012 (UTC) ATTN Admins[edit]Jaakobou has multiple times slandered editors as (be it directly or indirectly) anti-Semites, these comments should be redacted, and Jaakobou be given warning that he should not continuing slandering editors per WP:NPA. -asad (talk) 15:34, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Tiamut[edit]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the wording at Wikipedia:ARBPIA#Standard_discretionary_sanctions is such that standard discretionary sanctions only apply to "All Arab-Israeli conflict-related articles, broadly interpreted." While this does extend to article talk pages, I do not believe it covers pages in userspace. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:18, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
The AN/I doesn't really give any strong support for removing the text. In any case, Jaakobou seems to have pretty much shot himself in the foot with his sequence of actions (putting together a somewhat dubious summary and trying to make the removal - rather than waiting for someone uninvolved to decide a consensus was reached). That's not done much except inflame the situation - and this AE has had much the same effect. Switching forums so quickly gives the perception of baiting Tiamut into action that AE could sanction. I am sure Jaakobou means well; but he's not acted well here. I suggest an interaction ban between the two editors. --Errant (chat!) 16:21, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
@Jaakobou; hmm, the discussion included multiple editors - some of whom didn't think (despite being AN/I anyone uninvolved is invited to comment, so don't worry too much about "admin") a mandated removal was warranted. Elen's advice on that thread is excellent; what counts as offensive is incredibly subjective. For example; quite a lot of our editors carry user pages with certain strong quotes/comments about God, or religion, which I personally find problematic - and even offensive. Rather than pursue such material it is better to let is slide; Wikipedia has always allowed a certain amount of expression of ones own opinion in user space. This comment by Tiamut is worth reading and taking on board, I think. Particularly I have no problem considering the feelings of others. I expect that they will consider my own as well. . Realistically you undermined any chance of AN/I reaching a decision to remove that text by pre-empting the community. What *is* concerning though is that despite consistent comments that you have no interaction with Tiamut it is emerging that you do have a history of interaction; much of which seems focused on getting him sanctioned. --Errant (chat!) 17:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC) I would support a sanction against Jaakobou. Apart from his complete misrepresentation of the ANI outcome, his last three posts here [56] [57] and [58] consist of nothing but attacks on other editors. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:53, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Per the consensus of uninvolved administrators above, this request on Tiamut is dismissed as meritless. Under the authority of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions, as incorporated by WP:ARBPIA#Standard discretionary sanctions,
For repeatedly filing meritless AE requests and persistent battleground behavior, Jaakobou (talk · contribs) is banned indefinitely from all articles, discussions, and other content related to the Arab-Israeli conflict, broadly construed across all namespaces.
Jaakobou (talk · contribs) and Tiamut (talk · contribs) are indefinitely prohibited from interacting with, or commenting on, each other, broadly construed, anywhere on Wikipedia, except in cases of legitimate and necessary dispute resolution, and are further indefinitely prohibited from seeking any admin action related to each other, broadly construed, either publicly or privately through any means, except through the arbitration enforcement process or by email to the Arbitration Committee.
These sanctions may be appealed at WP:AE after twelve months, and every twelve months thereafter. They may also be appealed to AE once within twelve months of their imposition, and may be appealed to the Arbitration Committee at any time. T. Canens (talk) 04:08, 8 March 2012 (UTC) |
Lazyfoxx
[edit]| Lazyfoxx (talk · contribs) blocked for a week. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:46, 11 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Lazyfoxx[edit]
Though user was not warned officially but the user edited the Palestinian People article that have the warning on the talk page.
The user disruption not only in Palestinian People article but in other articles he insert word Palestinian to various articles using them as WP:COATRACK as Jesus that he was blocked for it [62], [63], [64], [65]. I think the very least he should be warned about the sanction the best solution is to ban him from the Palestinian People and adding word Palestinian.--Shrike (talk) 19:48, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Lazyfoxx[edit]Statement by Lazyfoxx[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Lazyfoxx[edit]Comment by Malik Shabazz[edit]I was disappointed, but not entirely surprised, to see an edit conflict break out today when the protection of Palestinian people ended, and while the RfC is still ongoing. Since Lazyfoxx started the conflict today by reverting to the contentious infobox image—and then canvassed other editors to assist— I think Lazyfoxx should be sanctioned. Lazyfoxx was blocked earlier this week for edit warring. I think a longer block, followed by a brief topic ban, is in order. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:08, 8 March 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Lazyfoxx[edit]
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Eraserhead1, HiLo48, Chipmunkdavis, TechnoSymbiosis, N-HH, Timrollpickering, etc.
[edit]| Wrong venue. T. Canens (talk) 12:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Eraserhead1, HiLo48, Chipmunkdavis, TechnoSymbiosis, N-HH, Timrollpickering, etc.[edit]
This is a request to enforce the previous decisions regarding Macedonia and Ireland and to apply it to Taiwan / Republic of China, and possibly China / People's Republic of China. There have been a large number of talk page discussions (including move requests) where a large gang of editors insist to mis-apply WP:COMMONNAME. Such discussions happened at Talk:China, Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Chinese), Talk:Taiwan and Talk:Taiwan (disambiguation), and is still ongoing at Talk:Republic of China. Bad languages and personal attacks appear throughout the discussions (both in the main texts and in the edit summaries), and the group insist not to consider more details, such as the historical and geographical background information of the ROC, or the spillover effects to other articles about Taiwan and/or the ROC. They call people disagree with COMMONNAME as "fighting a 60 year old war". Contributions from IP editors were crossed out or simply deleted, and votes from IP editors were disregarded. All these are exactly what had happened before with Ireland and Macedonia. I would therefore like to request the ArbCom to apply for previous decisions in those two cases in the case of Taiwan / ROC (and, if possible, to review the previous move from People's Republic of China to China too), particularly the decisions on purpose of Wikipedia, neutral point of view, naming disputes, editorial process, naming conventions, Wikipedia's content governance, and etiquette/conduct/collective behaviour. If in case previous ArbCom decisions cannot be applied as a matter of procedure, please advise whether I should file this in the form of a new arbitration request. Discussion concerning Eraserhead1, HiLo48, Chipmunkdavis, TechnoSymbiosis, N-HH, Timrollpickering, etc.[edit]Statement by Eraserhead1, HiLo48, Chipmunkdavis, TechnoSymbiosis, N-HH, Timrollpickering, etc.[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Eraserhead1, HiLo48, Chipmunkdavis, TechnoSymbiosis, N-HH, Timrollpickering, etc.[edit]Result concerning Eraserhead1, HiLo48, Chipmunkdavis, TechnoSymbiosis, N-HH, Timrollpickering, etc.[edit]
China has nothing to do with either Macedonia or Ireland; you'll need a fresh arbitration case. WP:A/R/C is the right place. T. Canens (talk) 12:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC) |
Chesdovi
[edit]| Clear violation of ARBPIA TBAN, Chesdovi (talk · contribs) blocked 3 months given previous 1 month block for violation --WGFinley (talk) 22:07, 9 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Chesdovi[edit]
Additionally, the log at WP:ARBPIA#Log_of_blocks_and_bans will show the many other times where Chesdovi has been sanctioned for editing in the subject area.
Clear violation of topic ban. Chesdovi continues applying their own WP:OR to say that the Rachel's Tomb is not a mosque, despite UNESCO classifying it as such. I frankly don't care if it is a mosque or a synagogue, or was never a mosque, this kind of tendentious editing is getting really annoying, and is a clear violation of Chesdovi's tban. -asad (talk) 15:57, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Chesdovi[edit]Statement by Chesdovi[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Chesdovi[edit]Many other edits by Chesdovi appear to breach the topic ban. See for instance the scores of edits to 1834 Safed pogrom and 1834 Hebron pogrom (far too many to link to, and related articles. RolandR (talk) 16:10, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Result concerning Chesdovi[edit]
Obvious violation of the TBAN, blocking for 3 months. --WGFinley (talk) 22:07, 9 March 2012 (UTC) |
So so glos
[edit]| User indeffed, block explicitly marked as a non-AE block. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 14:39, 13 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning So so glos[edit]
1. 00:48, 12 March 2012 (UTC) Soapboxing at Joseph's Tomb re Obama and claimed "murderous rampage" by Muslims. 2. 01:03, 12 March 2012 (UTC) Reinstates Obama/rampage soapboxing; replaces "West Bank" location with "Israel", & etc. 3. 01:16, 12 March 2012 (UTC) Responds to admin warning re soapboxing with, "I do not listen to threats made by Muslim imperialists." 4. 01:30, 12 March 2012 (UTC) Adds Obama/rampage soapboxing 3rd time, repeats replacement of location info and removal of link to Arabic Wikipedia; & etc. 5. 05:26, 13 March 2012 (UTC) Adds Obama/rampage soapboxing 4th time to same article; reinstates similarly reverted material.
New account with just eight edits. Extreme POV editing. At Joseph's Tomb article repeatedly replaces "Disputed tombs" category with "Jewish shrines" category; repeatedly removes Arabic names for the tomb from article; repeatedly removes link to corresponding article page at Arabic Wikipedia; repeatedly removes cited info (that had supporting quote) that Christians and Muslims have venerated the site through the ages, but leaves the part of the sentence saying that Jews and Samaritans have done so. Edit warring on Joseph's Tomb to reinstate soapboxing re apparent wish for apology from Obama for the "murderous rampage" that user asserts of Muslims; reinstatement of other reverted edits. In Rachel's Tomb article repeatedly adds "UNESCO lied and named the Jewish site 'Bilal ibn Rabah Mosque'. This was a politically motivated move to disenfranchise Israel and Jewish religious traditions." In same two edits to that article, repeats removal of U.S. condemnation of announcement that the tomb would become a part of the national Jewish heritage site, replaces location information. Similar and extensive changes to that article in those linked edits. Very aggressive response to user and admin warnings, along with other behavioral factors seems unusual for someone entirely new to Wikipedia. Account hasn't received formal ARBPIA warning that I'm aware of in addition to admin Drimes' warning of a possible block, but behavior out of the gate, and the response to the warning the account did receive has been so aggressive that I can't see that this is someone who will ever contribute in any collaborative way. NOTHERE to build an encylopedia, imo, but to push an extreme POV in this already highly contentious topic area. – OhioStandard (talk) 11:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Discussion concerning So so glos[edit]
Result concerning So so glos[edit]
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Frizstyler
[edit]| Indeffed by Floquenbeam. T. Canens (talk) 02:56, 18 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Frizstyler[edit]
Stereotypical nationally motivated pushing of POV grievances. Previous anon edits from 94.70.97.22 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) are the same user.
Discussion concerning Frizstyler[edit]Statement by Frizstyler[edit]i initially went to clarify a bit more the disambiguation guide in the top of page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language (also changed some title to monkey-donian by mistake , as i'm new in wikipedia,something the guy here is using to harrass me)and as a Greek add to the greek opinion showing the only proof i could find on the internet regarding this. I then after my change was reversed went to the talk page to discuss,but users future perfect ,taivo and dr.k Kept deleting my writings (IN THE TALK PAGE!!) without stating any opinion. and now they move against me here as if they are some kind of order. These internet clowns won't pass. I have let them know i spread it to other Greeks in internet blogs and they will face more people than me stating viable claims against them. To conclude, they also went in a rage of deleting what i wrote in THIS TALK PAGE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Macedonia. Seems they "handle" everything that has to do with FYROM in wikipedia. Really, who ARE THESE PEOPLE? WHO GIVES THEM JUSTIFICATION TO PLAY WITH WIKIPEDIA ON DEMAND? IS THIS THE WIKIPEDIA THAT ASKS DONATIONS EVERY YEAR CLAIMING IT'S OBJECTIVE? and finally, i wonder, ARE THEY WORKING FOR SOMEBODY?? BECAUSE THEY SEEM TO BE HERE AS A FULL TIME JOB!! Comments by others about the request concerning Frizstyler[edit]Result concerning Frizstyler[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Chesdovi
[edit]| Sanctions upheld, see closing statement for details. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:42, 22 March 2012 (UTC) |
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Consensus is quite clear that the interpretation of the topic ban's scope by the enforcing administrator is within reason, that the edits made given this interpretation violated it (and were also an unacceptable attempt to push the boundaries), and given the editor's history of misconduct and ban violations in the area before, that the length of the sanctions are well within reason, if not lenient. I strongly urge Chesdovi to stay well away from any area having remotely to do with areas dealing with Israel or Palestine upon returning from the block, as it seems patience is nearly exhausted here. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:42, 22 March 2012 (UTC) Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
Statement by Chesdovi[edit]Under the accepted scope of the A-I TB, only edits relating directly to the conflict area are prohibited. The edit in question was not.
I am in the process of putting together a comprehensive account of why I believe the way in which WGFinley implemented the indef-ban was unreasonable, which in turn will allow me to rely on the scope of the original ban issued by Tim. I will not be able to finish it tonight as I have a family occasion to attend. Please bear with me. I would just add that I don't know what type of fool WGFinley takes me for. By his latest comments, does he think I can simply not help myself from purposefully breaking the topic ban? Does he think I would break it intentionally? I have been doing quite okay under ban for 7 months and then WGFinley imposes a block and indef-ban without caring to review or post my appeal. Yet as support for his actions here, he refers to my earlier appeal and claims that it was "denied". That is a 100% bogus claim. Why is it bogus? Because he did not review it. Neither was it posted to AE for consideration. In fact it was not even closed. So who was it denied by? This is shameful. I am no fool and am quite capable of staying within what I have been led to believe is the scope of the topic ban. Something is not quite right here and I hope to clear it up tomorrow. Chesdovi (talk) 17:58, 14 March 2012 (UTC) ( copied to AE from Chesdovi's talk at 19:37, 14 March 2012 (UTC) ) Putting a side my opinion that based on a previous "test case" I did not violate my topic ban (TB), I proceed to demonstrate how WGFinley's (WGF) indef-ban (IB), which "superseded" Tim's original ban, was constructed unreasonably. The chief points I wish to highlight are
Disregard of my appeal Below I wish to demonstrate that there was a significant lack of intervention by WGF with regards to the way he dealt with my appeal of the block; this of course impacted on the implementation of the IB. It will be shown that WGF did not respond to my block appeal either by way of personally responding to it or by posting it at AE. I was blocked by WGF 48 minutes after Asad filed a report against me before I had a chance to make a statement. Three days after corresponding with WGF by email, I emailed him a comprehensive appeal assuming he would either accept it or reject it. Neither happened. Instead he responded that he "would prefer it go on the AE page so everyone is aware of the discussion." I replied to him that "ultimately any decision re. the reversal of the block lies with you" ... but went on to say "…But if you want to duplicate my correspondence at AE, you may now do so." WGF responded by saying he had not reviewed my appeal and that he would neither respond to it himself or post it at AE unless I instructed him to do so, I just had to "say the word" to get the ball rolling (this, despite that fact I had previously told him he could post it at AE - his preferred action.) On Jan 12 after being blocked for 5 days, I informed WGF that I did not quite understand what was holding back the appeal process by telling him I was not following his course of action. (I had emailed an appeal and after two days it still awaited a response, either personally or at AE.) Three days later on Jan 15, having sat on my unanswered appeal for 5 days, instead of posting my appeal, WGF informs AE (not me), that "I've gotten nothing but cryptic emails from Chesdovi," and, in addition to the leaving the (seemingly uncontested) block in place, imposed an indef-topic ban. This IB was imposed without my appeal being considered by anyone. My appeal was basically ignored by the blocking admin. Apparently WGF ignored my appeal as it was "cryptic" in nature. In response, I emailed WGF querying his use of the word "cryptic." When he replied, he did not explain what he meant by "cryptic", but instead said I needed to "to put what you want said on your talk page and not in emails to me." This, despite the first instruction at WP:AEBLOCK being "address your appeal by e-mail to the blocking administrator." (I had also emailed the Arbitration Committee without response). Following WGF’s instruction that I utilise my talk page instead, on Jan 16, I stated on talk that I wanted some answers from WGF. Yet it would be another 12 days until WGF was in contact again. Feeling that my block appeal was not being dealt with properly, On Jan 19, I posted at talk:
More significantly, I subsequently filled out the Arbitration enforcement appeal, but for some reason it was never actually posted to AE, but remained on my talk page. The person who deserves praise here is JamesBWatson (JBW) who actually took up my concerns about my perceived invalidity of the block. From my point of view, my appeal was now being discussed in the correct setting, yet the blocking admin still did not see it necessary to comment on, accept or reject my appeal. Upon my response to JBW on Jan 23, there was no further communication and in my last note of Jan 26 I said "You are wrong. Now please get Mr Finley to unblock me." Finally on Jan 27 I received a message from WGF:
WGF explained that I had not notified an admin to move over the talk discussion to AE. I actually was unaware that this was needed, surely JBW would have done what was necessary. Instead of offering or automatically moving the discussion to its proper place, WGF recommended that my appeal be left undealt with. He again suggested my emails were of a cryptic nature without explaining why and claimed I never stated I wanted to appeal my block. I am at a loss as to what gave him the impression I did not wish to appeal my block. The fact is, I had clearly insinuated in my correspondence that I wished to be unblocked: "ultimately any decision re. the reversal of the block lies with you." Why else would I have sent emails to him in the first place if not to dispute my block? False assumption of previous TB violation WGF implemented the IB based on the assumption that I had violated my TB in November 2011. This is a false assumption I have highlighted earlier and received no subsequent clarification about from WGF. In providing a support for implementing the IB, WGF stated at AE:
Yet in fact the November block was not for a violation of ARBPIA, but for an inadvertent violation of an interaction ban! Yet this "fact" was used as a reason to implement the IB?! In addition to the above two points, I want to mention that it seems that WFG has come to a negative conclusion about my behavior by counting the number of times I have been "blocked for ARBPIA violations." Upon closer examination, I wish to show how this negative perception is unfair. I have not been blocked 12 times for ARBPIA violations WGF makes a wild claim that "This is the 12th time by 7 different admins Chesdovi has been blocked for ARBPIA violations." That is an inaccurate accusation. If my previous "10 blocks" is what WGF based his IB upon, he is most certainly mistaken.
Besides myself only counting a total of 7 previous blocks (not 10) in total, only 3 previous blocks related to ARBPIA.
The other blocks (I discount the two recent blocks issued by WGF) cannot be used against me in this instance of my editing in the I/P conflict area:
Furthermore, on imposing the IB, WGF stated: "Given the vast number of previous bans." I want to question WGF's use of the term "vast", a description used to support the IB. I had been given only one I/P topic ban. I therefore do not understand why WGF uses the word "vast." I hope he is not including two other bans I received which were not part of or related to the I/P conflict area (although they are listed at the ARBPIA log). Does 1 topic ban constitute "vast"? WGF also mentioned the "repeated violation of the existing [TB] ban." This no doubt relates to some diffs provided by SD, which were construed as violations, but probably fell short of breaking the ban as I had understood the scope of the ban. In conclusion, there were not 12 ARBPIA blocks, just 3, and there have not been a "vast" number of bans, just 1. I therefore conclude that the IB was unfairly imposed and based in irregularities and unfounded assumptions. It was unreasonable to impose an IB based on a) not responding to my appeal of the block; b) fraudulently claiming a previous TB violation and c) exaggerating the number of time I have been blocked under ARBPIA. WFG has since claimed that my appeal was "denied". But in truth, it was not "denied". It was never reviewed by the blocking Admin, neither was my appeal opened at AE. He has also claimed I remained blocked for a full 30 days which is simply not true, WGF having lifted the block 7 days early. He also falsely claimed 60 days ago I was "warned and sanctioned on this article", but in truth no warning left on my talk page regarding Rachel's tomb before the sanction was placed. I would add that OhioStandard has made a statement in which he raises 3 points. I would be happy to respond to each, but in the interest of time saving, will only do so if the reviewing admin thinks it is necessary and informs me to do so. In such a case, unless I hear otherwise, it would not be correct to take Ohio's comments into consideration at this stage. Chesdovi (talk) 12:05, 20 March 2012 (UTC) Statement by Wgfinley[edit]I'm not certain what source Chesdovi is using to decide this area isn't subject to his ARBPIA topic ban, it's on Rachel's Tomb again which was the subject of his last AE report and his actions resulted in a one month block. One need not go to "broadly construed" to consider this part of ARBPIA, the exact reason Chesdovi is making the changes is tendentious editing in the Palestine-Israel conflict concerning this disputed site. 90 days is appropriate to prevent further disturbance in the ARBPIA space. His user page seems to reflect he has no interest in changing his behavior, he continues to use information from a private email exchange and thinks he is being wronged here. I'm not even certain 90 days will be sufficient to rectify this but I thought I would give him a chance to remediate. It's too bad because he has made many great contributions, he just can't stay away from TE in this topic area. --WGFinley (talk) 14:20, 12 March 2012 (UTC) @MichaelNetzer (talk · contribs) I should point out is fresh off a 45 day TBAN and is currently under ARBPIA probation, it should come as no surprise he will carry it over to here on AE where he will tendentiously edit some more. Comparing this to the "Joseph" issue is ridiculous. Chesdovi was blocked and had an appeal denied on this very topic of Rachel's Tomb, he went and made substantive changes that are directly related to the ARBPIA conflict (whether a holy site is a mosque or not). Again, one need not go to "broadly construed" to deem this battleground beehavior Chesdovi has found himself subject to sanction over for the past 5+ years. At a certain point the space has been disturbed enough with blatant partisans and they need to change their behavior or find another topic. In this case Chesdovi refuses to find another topic, he wants to continue to be involved in this one. The only solution left is to block, it's the only action left. --WGFinley (talk) 18:42, 13 March 2012 (UTC) Fundamental Misunderstanding of TBAN[edit]Gentlemen, please go and review the WP:TBAN policy, and also my very unambiguous statement of what the ban is:
This is my final comment on the matter, I hope it is concluded soon. --WGFinley (talk) 04:20, 14 March 2012 (UTC) Statement by asad[edit]I have tried to stay away from engaging with Chesdovi and ignore him as much as I can. I have endured many a personal attack and elitist language that he has thrown at me for the better part of eight months now. But one thing I will not tolerate any more is further distortion of my words by him. Besides just being annoying, I am now starting to find it slanderous and mischievous. He toyed with allegations of antisemitism by claiming I have purposely white-washed Jews out of the history of my hometown [95] and accused me of not knowing how to use English [96]. That's fine, you know, all water under the bridge. But now this thing has come up. The latest accusation is that "Asad does not believe Rachel’s tomb is a former mosque. He thinks it is currently a mosque." [97]. Of course, this is a gross misrepresentation of what I said as well. As in the original report I said, "I frankly don't care if it is a mosque or a synagogue, or was never a mosque, this kind of tendentious editing is getting really annoying, and is a clear violation of Chesdovi's tban."[98]. I ask that Chesdovi by reminded that per WP:NPA, that he comment on the edits rather than the editor. As far as the synagogue vs mosque thing, I would like to sum up how I understand Chesdovi's arguments. 1) Rachel's Tomb (or at least part of it) may or may not have served as a mosque at some points in the early 20th century 2) It is not "currently" being used as a mosque, so therefore it shouldn't be included in a category/template of "Mosques in the Israel and the Palestinian territories". Fair enough, so if Chesdovi wanted to apply the same standards all around, he would have certainly omitted the "Synagogues in the West Bank" cat from the Eshtemoa synagogue article, right? Wrong. The article, in which Chesdovi created, states that, "The Eshtemoa Synagogue, located 15km south of Hebron in as-Samu, West Bank, was an ancient synagogue dating from around the 4th-5th century CE." As per Chesdovi, a building that once functioned as a mosque, but no longer does, does not deserve a cat describing it as such, but ruins that were once used as a synagogue, but no longer do, do deserve a cat describing it as such. It is an utterly hypocritical and disingenuous argument. It is no secret that the something like this would fall under the scope an WP:ARBPIA tban, and the continuous denying of such connection and attempts to circumvent the ban is WP:GAMING and WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT on Chesdovi's part. This coupled with the obvious POV pushing and personal attacks, I find a 3-month ban to be incredibly light. -asad (talk) 14:15, 13 March 2012 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 1)[edit]Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Chesdovi[edit]
Comments by MichaelNetzer[edit]HJ Mitchell and Blade: In the precedent of the archive 45 case that Chesdovi cited, Ed Johnston and T. Canens both agreed that a TB allows editing a page in the topic area if the edit is not associated with the conflict itself. In that case, even the filer of the complaint (the same filer of this complaint) acknowledged this view and withdrew the complaint. In that same case, Chesdovi's previous TB was also "broadly construed". Your statements here about a "broadly construed" TB thus do not seem to reflect the facts in the precedent case, as viewed by the two admins who agreed to close it, and under which Chesdovi made the template edit in question. The caveat given by T. Canens was that "if the exportation of disputes from Arab-Israeli conflict becomes a substantial problem" then a TB would become more absolute. Given these facts, how can you blame Chesdovi for adhering to this decision in good faith? If admins choose to now decide, due to this case or others, to limit the TB even further, then this should only become enforceable from this point forward (and made accessibly known across the topic area) and not used to retroactively punish Chesdovi for an edit before this conclusion was made. Admin comments here do not seem to reflect the situation based on the precedent Chesdovi relied on. Chesdovi had no reason to believe there was a problem with his last edit. There exists a content dispute about Rachel's Tomb being a Mosque. To many editors, one UNESCO RS, cannot rewrite a 1500 year history of the site devoid of the Mosque that some claim to be there. But it is a content dispute about a Mosque template - not an issue of violating a TB. And certainly not deserving such a harsh block precipitated by hostile assumptions about the editor that seem to ignore the basis for his edit. --MichaelNetzer (talk) 20:06, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Floquenbeam: Chesdovi's edit was not to exclude Rachel's Tomb from the Mosque category, rather only to move it to a new group within that category "Former mosques". There is no dispute that it is not presently a mosque. The edit was only to correct a technicality that is not related to either the wider conflict or the specific dispute over the site. There are no RS, nor any Arab claims that there is presently a mosque there. This is not at all different from the previous case Chesdovi cited about a technicality relating to the Arabic name of Joseph's Tomb, where the filer of the complaint and closing admins all agreed the edit did not violate the topic ban. Your opinion is worthy and respected but Chesdovi operated under a previous AE precedent that he was involved in and that he relied on to make the edit. If admins wish to change the rules now based on diverging admin opinions, it should not be done retro-actively. Perhaps if a clear AE statement is released that Ed Johnston and T. Canens decision on that case is no longer valid, then it can be enforced from this point forward. To apply such a decision retroactively and without warning seems a disservice to the AE process. --MichaelNetzer (talk) 23:02, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
@Blade: You are naturally and respectfully entitled to your opinion as to what a topic ban means. Other admins who've given decisions on topic bans do not agree with you. One such case cited here repeatedly (which for some reason is being ignored or dismissed) involved Chesdovi in an almost identical technical edit. Ed Johnston and T. Canens both agreed that although the page he edited carries the ARBPIA template, his edit does not violate the TB. I'm bringing the quoted decision here in hopes that yourself and other admins will at least explain why Chesdovi cannot rely on this decision or why you apparently think it is not valid:
It's understandable that not every AE admin agrees with this. But it is certainly enough to have given Chesdovi a green light for a similar edit without fear of sanction. However it most certainly cannot be enough to ignore this precedent and assert contrary opinions about topic bans in this case. Yourself and other admins would need to explain why this previous decision is invalid. But even so, it is extremely unfair (and borders on tendentious arbitration) to apply this block without giving the editor due warning that the previous decision he relied on was invalid. Please take this into consideration. --MichaelNetzer (talk) 15:43, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
Comment by The Devil's Advocate[edit]Seems to me that this was a clear-cut violation. Rachel's Tomb was under Muslim control until 1967 and I will give everyone three guesses why it changed control in 1967. The exemption above appears to be about a centuries-old issue, as opposed to a recent issue like this one. It also stretches credulity that Chesdovi would not expect this recent edit to be a violation, given that a block was previously issued for the same kind of edit as this one just two months prior. I don't think this requires "broadly construing" the issue as the whole issue of whether it is a mosque or a synagogue arises from its switch from Arab control to Israeli control during one of the Arab-Israeli wars.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 04:00, 14 March 2012 (UTC) Comment by OhioStandard[edit]One of Chesdovi's supporters quoted Timotheus Canens' and EdJohnston's comments from over six months ago, now moved to AE archives, about his edits to a different article. That prompted me to have a look at other, more recent archives of multiple pages. The process revealed the following discoveries, which are new to me, at least:
I've discovered a few other points through this process that are at least as relevant: I'll try to add those later today if I can find the time. – OhioStandard (talk) 14:14, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
( Please note: If you wish to respond to any of the points raised above, kindly add those comments to your own "comments by" section. ) Result of the appeal by Chesdovi[edit]
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