Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive165
Astynax
[edit]This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Astynax
[edit]- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Nwlaw63 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:16, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Astynax (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark_Worldwide#Discretionary_sanctions_.28January_2015.29 : Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark_Worldwide#Parties_reminded : "2) Parties to the case are reminded to base their arguments in reliable, independent sources and to discuss changes rather than revert on sight."
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 29 January 2015 Massive controversial edit (more than doubled the size of the existing article) without any consensus. Besides having numerous BLP and POV issues (slanted defamatory allegations against a living person with sourcing issues), the edit discussed matters which predated the existence of the article topic by many years, and there was again, absolutely no consensus for including it.
- 29 January 2015 Reverting without addressing issues raised, disregarding bold/discuss/revert
- 30 January 2015 Reverting without addressing issues raised, disregarding bold/discuss revert, then reverting again [1]
- 30 January 2015 Argumentative and tendentious, again disregarding bold/discuss/revert
- 12 February 2015 Mass revert of mutiple edits to reinstate contentious version of 30 January
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
- Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
- Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 28 January 2015
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Astynax ignores consensus on talk pages and RfCs when it does not fit their agenda, and has ignored attempts to resolve the content dispute through normal dispute resolution procedures. Rather than using these procedures, they attempt to have other editors sanctioned with whom they disagree. Ignoring and belittling the views of other editors and ignoring bold/revert/discuss is a consistent pattern over more than a year and a half, and has continued unabated even after the Arbitration case. A quick review of the background is as follows:
- In September 2013, Astynax initiated a RfC regarding the inclusion of Landmark in the List of new religious movements which closed with a consensus that it should not be included [2]. They ignored this and re-instated Landmark's entry, for which they were warned [3]. They then turned their attention to the the Landmark article itself and persistently inserted similar claims there [4] [5].
- In August 2014 Astynax returned and re-inserted the same material [6] [7], proceeding to edit-war over the next few weeks to preserve their version.
- On 20th September 2014, Astynax filed the Request for Arbitration [8], which ultimately resulted in discretionary sanctions being applied to the Landmark article.
- Astynax did not respond to this recent Request for Mediation [9], but instead filed a case at COI against editors who disagreed with them [10]. It should be noted that no action was taken against the two editors here, DaveApter and Alex Jackl. (DA's alleged COI was already raised at the Landmark Arbitration case and not found to be justified).
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Response to Cailil on policy based reason for removal of original edit
[edit]Regarding your point that the original edit would need “a cogent and policy based reason for removal” for there to be a problem here, the policies violated by the original edit seem to include WP: REL and WP:UNDUE. The edit made literally half of the article about people and events that predated the existence of the article subject by years. The general guideline WP:BRD was also ignored when the above edit was reverted, with Astynax simply reverting the reversion.
If all of this is too content based for this forum, I accept that decision, and would appreciate any other suggestions for resolving these issues, noting that this editor has ignored a mediation request and been dismissive on the talk page of the views of other editors. Nwlaw63 (talk) 21:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Astynax
[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Astynax
[edit]Apart from rearguing points already discussed in Arbcom's Landmark case, the only recent activity Nwlaw63 is offering is the restoration of the article from a revert that essentially wiped out over 6 months of referenced work by multiple editors. The contention that consensus existed to return the article to the state that existed in July 2014[11] is false. The Arbcom case reminded all parties to base any edits in sources.[12] Blanking referenced material on WP:OR grounds or personal PoV is as much a violation as would be insisting on adding material not based in references. • Astynax talk 19:33, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Tgeairn
[edit]While Harry is one of my favourite whisky drinking admins, and I generally agree with him, I submit that there is a significant conduct issue here.
Following the Arbitration case and subsequent authorisation of Discretionary Sanctions, Astynax has refused to edit collaboratively in this domain of articles. They have refused to participate in mediation; the talk page and archives have numerous examples of threads begun, only to stall out with Astynax's refusal to engage in discussion; and when requests for moves and mergers have not gone in the way they supported, they have then just forced the edits into the article anyway. There appears to be a significant misunderstanding of WP:BRD(edit summary), as well as WP:ONUS(such as here). When other editors have argued that material is undue or has other issues, Astynax continues to re-insert the material without any consensus.
The behaviour here violates at least four of the five principles that Arbcom passed in association with this case and subsequent authorisation of DS, and flies squarely in the face of remedy #2 ("...discuss changes rather than revert on sight."). Given that Astynax has already demonstrated a willingness to restore material against consensus repeatedly over long periods of time, there seems to be little evidence that the article will improve without the application of sanctions. --Tgeairn (talk) 00:50, 20 February 2015 (UTC) Tgeairn (talk) 05:17, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by User:Nagle
[edit]This matter was brought up at WP:COIN, at WP:COIN#Landmark_Worldwide, where I regularly try to help with COI problems. My comment there was "That article has been a long-term headache and a subject of ArbComm sanctions. Can this problem be turned over to ArbComm enforcement? I doubt we can resolve this at WP:COIN. This probably needs the big hammers available at AN/I. John Nagle 20:23, 13 February 2015 (UTC) ... Buck passed to Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive873#Landmark Worldwide heating up, again. Take this over there, please. Thanks. John Nagle 20:42, 13 February 2015 (UTC)" I just got a request on my talk page at User talk:Nagle#Landmark now at AE to do something about this. Since it's at AE, it's AE's problem now. I have no position on this. You guys sort this out. John Nagle (talk) 07:22, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by DaveApter
[edit](I've reinstated this archived section, as it still seems unresolved) There really does need to be some sort of shift here. As one of the Arbitrators remarked during discussion of the case "The aim of Arbitration is to break the back of the dispute", but here there seems to be no sign of any such breakage. The heart of the matter is a content dispute, but we are completely snookered because some parties resolutely refuse to engage with any of the normal dispute resolution processes.
Astynax's behaviour since the case has been exactly the same as it was before:
- Responding to discussion on the talk page by accusations of original research or "ignoring sources" rather than engaging with the points that are raised.
- Pressing ahead regardless with their preferred version, even when a clear consensus had emerged against it. For example, there had been a proposal on the talk page to merge the Landmark article with the est and WEA, which was closed by Drmies as 'no consensus'. Yet the bloated "Background" section added by Astynax [13] effectively added material relating to events years before the formation of this corporation that would have been appropriate to such a merge.
- Massive block reverts to re-establish his preferred version (This edit [14] eliminated seven specific changes that had been made - is is plausible that there was no merit in any of them?)
- Point-blank refusal to join with any attempts to resolve the difference of opinion through normal channels: this Request for Mediation [15] failed because neither Astynax nor any of the other editors who share his viewpoint would participate in it.
- Abuse of Wikipedia's disciplinary processes to intimidate editors who do not agree with his perspective. The post at WP:COIN is a case in point: Astynax knew full well that the question of my alleged COI had been aired at the Arbitration case (indeed I actually asked for it to be myself).
- For that matter, their original Request for Arbitration was arguably a frivolous application, insofar as none of the three parties that he named were found to have committed breaches of policies. DaveApter (talk) 17:33, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
In response to questions raised by Cailil
[edit]I can understand that readers coming newly to this may well find it confusing; I will do my best to shed some light.
The mass insert by Astynax on 29th of January was clearly in disregard of the extended discussion on the talk page - Proposed merger with Werner Erhard and Associates and Erhard Seminars Training - which had been closed as No Consensus by Drmies on 15th January [16]. The events described allegedly took place seven to sixteen years prior to the foundation of Landmark, and would belong (if at all, bearing in mind the poor sourcing for defamatory insinuations against a living person) in one or other of the articles whose merger had been rejected.
The re-insertion by Astynax of the same content the following day (as well as by a couple of other editors) had not been justified by any of the extended discussion on the talk page in the intervening time Talk:Landmark_Worldwide#Extensive_merged_information_added_to_article_in_violation_of_recent_discussion.
Neither was the edit warring to reinstate the same material on 12th February justified by anything that had been brought to the talk page in the intervening period. In fact, almost all for the comments on the talk page between 30th Jan and 12th Feb [17] were making the case against the inclusion of this material, and against other additions that Astynax and his collaborators had made.
It was also arguably in disregard of the discussion - Requested move 10 January 2015 - which was closed as no consensus by EdJohnston on 10th February [18]. (This being an attempt to justify including the lengthy narrative of events prior to the formation of the corporation, by shifting the focus of the article from the corporation itself to one of its products on the - questionable - grounds that this product was identical with that offered by the other entities).
It's late here and this will have to do for now; I may add some more tomorrow. DaveApter (talk) 22:41, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by John Carter
[edit]I think it is very much worth noting that in the roughly two months since the arbitration closed, no less than three AE requests have been filed, and that, so far as I can tell, in all three cases of the filed requests there has been little if any support for sanctions against editors. There is also, I believe, a rather obvious to me attempt to mischaracterize some events, which is concerning. I note in particular that the COIN rarely if ever closes discussions with a clear "Editor X has been demonstrated to have a COI" although there seems to be a repeated insistence that lack of such a closing comment in some way is indicative of no finding. Such concerns, and some of the other concerns expressed here and elsewhere in the prior two AE requests, give me reason to believe that some editors involved may be trying to win through vexatious litagation something they would be unlikely or unable to win through standard procedures, and that possibility is one that raises in at least my eyes serious questions regarding the actions of some of the editors involved. John Carter (talk) 21:55, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
[edit]Result concerning Astynax
[edit]- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- There seems to have been a lot of back and forth on the article lately. I'm not seeing a major problem with Asyntax's conduct; they could be more communicative, but they don't seem to be being unreasonable given the circumstances. If I'm inclined towards any action, it's a lengthy spell (maybe a month) of full protection on the article to calm things down and force people to discuss things on the talk page. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:00, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
- I'm trying to read myself in to this case but for all the allegations of misconduct against Astynax here there needs to be substantiation with dated diffs. For example a diff showing consensus being reached on the talk page needs to be followed by a diff showing it being broken, etc etc. Just saying "Astynax breaks consensus" is not sufficient. These allegations need clearly laid out evidence or uninvolved sysops will not be able to act--Cailil talk 20:26, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
- I don't see it. The biggest complaint in this request is that Astynax made "a big controversial edit". This looks to me like an attempt to win a content issue via AE and I'm inclined to recommend closure without action.
Unless someone can show me the diffs of the original edits that Astynax is reverting I don't see him "reverting onsight". These look like run of the mill reverts of removals of sourced content. Unless the original edit has a cogent and policy based reason for removal (and is right about its policy reason) we can't judge these reverts at all.
Furthermore this diff does not show tendentiousness. The only edit I'd question is the last diff in Nwlaw63's report but that's only because Astynax is reverting a revert. Honestly this is a content dispute and should not be here - because we can't help. Recommend closure without action--Cailil talk 15:42, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
- I don't see it. The biggest complaint in this request is that Astynax made "a big controversial edit". This looks to me like an attempt to win a content issue via AE and I'm inclined to recommend closure without action.
Eric Corbett
[edit]| Blocked for 72 hours for violating a topic ban. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 18:39, 27 February 2015 (UTC) |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Eric Corbett[edit]
Although not an outright statement about the GGTF it is an easily drawn inference as to whom Eric is referring to and this is in breech of his previously impemented topic ban. Amortias (T)(C) 19:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Eric Corbett[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Eric Corbett[edit]I think that any block ought to be for at least a week, else I won't have learned my lesson. I have until now avoided the use of my admin account, but that's another possibility going forward. Eric Corbett 05:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Capeo[edit]I don't see how this is a violation of the TB personally. There's no mention of the GGTF, the gender disparity or any process or discussion about either of the above. It's a comment about a dispute that doesn't fit any of the above criteria either. And it doesn't matter who the comment can be construed to be about. No editor is the embodiment of the GGTF so that simply engaging them can be broadly construed as mentioning the GGTF by proxy. Capeo (talk) 19:36, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by (anonymous)[edit]This doesn't appear to violate the topic ban per se; however, I'd also note here that the Arbcom decision also states: Statement by EvergreenFir[edit]Lightbreather was involved in the GGTF arb case and presented evidence against Corbett specifically. Indeed the now-infamous quote by Corbett
Statement by Knowledgekid87[edit]The thread on WP:ANI was started by LB, when he said "feminist militants" it was referring to a person or group in particular here on wikipedia. I don't know how the comment can be taken as another general broad opinion with that description. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 20:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Im looking at other's comments in a bit of disbelief as well the wording was "Isn't it about time that these militant feminists were dealt with once and for all?" Who are these "militant feminists" which are referred to? The comment was made without provoking Eric as noted and the section had nothing to do with a discussion about a gender and it was a REPLY to H.I.A.B.'s comment which was this: "the underhanded actions are hurting the ncylopedia that's why it is hard to ignore. She is destructive in her method." Connect the dots here please, anything could have been said but that is not what took place. Lastly I want to say, why would Eric be commenting there (A thread about LB and HIAB) in the first place when he has an IBAN between himself and LB? Usually there is a reason for comments made. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 02:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Buster7[edit]It is just as easy to construe that Eric meant to type omnipitent but hit the "L" instead of the "P" and at the same time had a lapse in spelling or a short-term memory loss. It happens to me all the time. . Buster Seven Talk 20:42, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Ironholds[edit]Agreed with Evergreenfir, here; even were it not for the GGTF sanctions (there's an argument for this not falling under those, although frankly the fact that Eric hasn't learned to just avoid the entire topic area is...ludicrous), the prohibition on him deliberately insulting others is clear, as is the fact that this sort of behaviour violates that prohibition - BusterSeven's fallaciousness aside. As an aside of my own: User:HJ Mitchell, you had some honour to maintain, I believe? ;p. Ironholds (talk) 21:25, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by J3Mrs[edit]This is the most stupid of sanctions. Not only is it an open invitation to some editors to be spiteful and vindictive but it is counter-productive. "Militant feminists" as applied here is a statement of fact. J3Mrs (talk) 21:45, 26 February 2015 (UTC) It is obvious to me that militant feminists are attempting to ban Eric and I feel sorry for those who can't see it. They have been allowed to create a vile and disruptive atmosphere for many other editors that has been allowed to continue unchecked. This drama is entirely the creation of Arbcom's most ridiculous sanction. J3Mrs (talk) 08:46, 27 February 2015 (UTC) I'm incredulous by the fact that some of Corbett's defenders lines of argument are a) militant feminists don't exist on Wikipedia or b) it shouldn't be taken as an insult or c) the fact that militant feminists are, by implication, ruining Wikipedia, is a statement of fact and that negates any restrictions that might have been placed on Corbett. He said what he said and admins can decide whether it crossed a line or not. But the point here is not to defend or interpret what he said. Liz Read! Talk! 22:11, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by EChastain[edit]Yesterday, after extensive disruption on his talk by Rationalobserver who has been disruptive there before and who has made extensive derogatory remarks on her own talkpage regarding his inability to edit well and that she wouldn't want his help, now asked for his help, after apologising to him for joining the feminism bandwagon against him on Rose-Baley Party where FR writer Victoriaearle has already been driven off. Rationalobserver is turned down. Eric Corbett was polite at first, but she continued until he deleted her subsequent remarks. She proceeds to edit Donner Party an FAC for which he was a principal editor, and argue extensively on the talk page with other editors in defense of her edits. She also goes to the RS noticeboard and questions his sources, and continues to argue there on the noticeboard talkpage after that section was closed by other editors. Nevertheless, Eric Corbett is blamed by Knowledgekid87 for her behavior, because he mentioned Donner Party. Anyone following GGTF, which is a political advocacy task force, and seeing some of what has resulted from discussions there (recent ANI's and article disruptions like on Breast cleavage) and others, can't help but wonder. I'm a female as I've said before, but I'm afraid to say that I might support Eric Corbett's remark, although I think the remark was ill-advised because of the PC atmosphere on wiki; it seems that no female editor (though I've been hassled by some of those same female editors), can be criticised by those perceived as males. There's a chill in the community, and even admins seem fearful. Really, just using the term "militant feminist" is sanctionable? (anonymous says above: " it does appear he has other editors in mind"). After what he endured just yesterday from a "friend" of Lightbreather, an editor who filed for a ds sanction against Eric Corbett just days after Lightbreather successfully did,[21] I can understand his remark as he is a human. There are many, many females on this project who abhor what's going on at GGTF and the targeting Eric Corbett. The "cunt" remark, brought up above, occurred last fall but is still being brought up repeatedly to tarnish him, spread around by those same (female) editors, repeated verbatim over and over again by Lightbreater who claimed it was a personal attack against her. (And there clearly is a cultural difference in the way that word is used.) [edited] EChastain (talk) 01:57, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Drmies[edit]To those who think that they're doing anyone a favor by starting an arbitration request hoping to see someone get kicked in the balls, why don't you just make up your mind and be consistent? If you think Eric is a troll, then don't feed him. Let it go. Here's yet another manufactured controversy. Just move on. There's plenty of people who make stupid remarks all the time, no need to make a fuss. I think the "militant feminists" remark was foolish, and I think that the ANI thread started by someone was foolish, and I think some of the remarks made by someone else that started an ANI thread were foolish. Motes and beams, pots and kettles. Eric, be careful lest you fart with the wind from the wrong direction. Drmies (talk) 22:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Hal_peridol[edit]@Capeo, J3Mrs - what about if rather than "militant feminists", someone had said, "Isn't it about time that these misogynists were dealt with once and for all?" - we probably would be having this conversation. And it is possible that some people would see it as a statement of fact.Hal peridol (talk) 23:09, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by John Carter[edit]I agree with Black Kite below in thinking that "militant feminist" is more of a statement of someone's political or social positions than a description of gender, and thus possibly outside the scope of the existing sanctions. In fact, there are, at least some, biological male "feminists", from what I remember seeing in some sources. On that basis, I would have to say that while this may well be not unreasonably seen as being an attempt to determine just how far Eric can go in using comments which are not necessarily gender-specific or insulting, it is also, at least in the eyes of some, an at least potentially gender-neutral term and not-necessarily-judgmental term, and on that basis I have difficulty seeing how it necessarily relates to the "gender gap." Political descriptions and biological descriptions are not the same thing, and it is not reasonable to believe that someone who may have opinions regarding the political or social positions of others with whom (s)he may not share the same ethnicity or gender is necessarily disparaging either an ethnicity or gender when that person is making a comment which specifically relates only to one ideological group within that broader community. I would think that maybe simply advising Eric that these comments are unacceptable and considered violations of the existing sanctions might be enough. That is, if they are violations, which I actually personally think they aren't, because "extremism" of all sorts exists, and it isn't insulting to describe such people by such terms. John Carter (talk) 01:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by BoboMeowCat[edit]I initially was not going to contribute here because although I suspect Eric's comment was technically a violation, he doesn't even seem to be the worst offender here with respect to the battleground disruption, and it seems like this is a case of going after the weakest link considering Eric is more vulnerable due to past sanctions. However, I decided to chime in here to second EvergreenFir's observations regarding the inappropriateness of Black Kite's below suggestion that some admin should have the balls (or female equivalent) to act unilaterally to remove Lightbreater from Wikipedia. Very inappropriate. I do not think such an action would have community support as in it would not be supported at ANI. I would actually be similarly disgusted if an admin were encouraging someone to take unilateral action to remove Eric Corbett. --BoboMeowCat (talk) 04:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Giano[edit]Here's some extracts From Eric's talk page yesterday [22], posted by an agitated Rationalobserver, who was furious that Eric had politely declined to collaborate with her:
So where were all you Admins and editors so obsessed with civility and nice, pretty behaviour yesterday when Rationalobserver was trolling him? Perhaps you feel being nice and polite is only obligatory to men, and women are exempt from the rules? It seems very obvious to me that a group of what appear to be militant feminists and their hangers-on have had a target pinned to Eric's back by an Arbcom who clearly hasn't a clue or more likely driven on by a man-hater in its midst. Where's this going to end I wonder - these females and their attendants clearly want Eric off the project and some Admins and Arbs seem to be only too happy to be manipulated into that opinion.That's very concerning. Giano (talk) 08:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Sitush[edit]Anyone who doesn't think there are militant feminists disrupting this project, just as there are caste warriors and nationalists etc, needs their eyes testing. As a political descriptor, the term can be applied to men as well as to women and its scope extends well beyond the supposed purpose of the GGTF. If people here are to be prevented from calling a spade a spade, and instead are expected to soften things to the point of banality in order not to cause alleged offence etc, then we may as well shut up shop and go home: it is asking too much of human nature and putting too much power in the hands of the politicians. - Sitush (talk) 08:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC) @BoboMeowCat: I don't think Eric has been on the GGTF talk page since before the ArbCom case concluded, so your point is probably not relevant to this request. However, if you were to conduct such an analysis I do hope that you distinguish between hounding and legitimate criticism - they are not synonymous. - Sitush (talk) 18:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Johnuniq[edit]Eric's comment was at ANI where it is standard practice to speak bluntly about other editors and to suggest that other editors be removed from the project. The comment has no shouting, swearing, insulting, or belittling. Harej is reading far too much into the Arbcom remedy. Johnuniq (talk) 09:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Ddstretch[edit]@Giano: Quite independently of this appeal for enforcement, here, I had taken User:Rationalobserver to task for her offensive comments on Eric Corbett's talk page. As a result of her thinking nothing she had written was in any way wrong, and given that she had subsequently been given a warning by @Drmies: for being offensive on his/her talk page, I have blocked Rationalobserver for two weeks and suggested that if she wishes to be unblocked she considers carefully her behaviour and gives an undertaking to not be so offensive in future. I blocked because the disruption caused by her was very likely to continue given that she claimed she had done nothing wrong, when clearly she had. DDStretch (talk) 09:09, 27 February 2015 (UTC) (Added later): I might add that @EChastain: has also covered, rather extensively, the same ground that I covered in determining what to do about Rationalobserver. My action to block happened now because I am in China, time differences and real life meant I could not act until now. DDStretch (talk) 09:20, 27 February 2015 (UTC) @Chillum: I rather read Eric Corbett's comment as a joke. He clearly cannot sock as an admin, and the joke would fit in with his view of this process as being a bit laughable, like a few others do, here. DDStretch (talk) 09:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC) @Knowledgekid87: it may be weird to you, but I think it is quite in character, and, indeed, I laughed out loud and would like to steal it for any future use (possibly modified) myself. I think it just goes to show that cultural sensitivity is needed: it appears that Eric Corbett and myself come from similar parts of the UK, which is why I can immediately appreciate the humour (also recent comments by ClemRutter apply) Also, I have to say that this edit here, by you, Knowledgekid87, doesn't help and merely stirs up the drama more. You would be well-advised to stop making such inflamatory and plainly wrong comments about some who has been rightly blocked. Your insinuation here: " [a]circle of editors here on Wikipedia who defend each other like crazy. Your mistake was going to Drmies for help, if you look at Corbett's talkpage history you will know why. Anyways I hope you come back after all of this I cant say I blame you though if you want to call it quits. I believe you are innocent here, you asked for help on Eric's talkpage and while Eric did turn down your offer Montana made things worse by ganging up on you." is insulting and offensive to a number of editors. I am taking action against you as a result of this. Statement by ClemRutter[edit]I am getting increasing bored with this continual harrassment of Malleus. Consistently, he has been unqualifiedly helpful to newbies, and provided a string of FAs that one can refer to for inspiration. Nit-picking comments by a small group of editors who seem detemined to play wikilawyer with flawed policy and text. So what have they found this week-- absolutely nothing, so they make up a new offence. It appears that the nineteen sixties term 'militant-feminist'is no longer a description but an insult. Tosh. Looking at Civility policy- there appears to be one glaring ommission. (c) Indirect rudeness- by not respecting an editors register of speech, racial, class or regional variety of English. Eric is an outstanding academic who in his ' professional register' will use terms precisely with well defined meaning. Eric obviously uses that register when discussing professional matters with colleages. It is grossly uncivil to try and wikiwonk a phrase out of that register. Within the professional register in the North of England, one relies heavily on humour: not to accept that is to show you don't understand the culture- and are ready to belittle it. That is indirect rudeness. The accusation is plainly malicious. I don't understand why this harrassment is not picked up- why we have serious administrators that fall to look at these weekly attacks from a wider perspective. Next week couldn't the admins just block the accuser for eight days to send a message. The serial accusers/abusers could be required to make a nominal 500 edits to main space before being unlocked to make accusations. Admins can protect a page, so how about extending that and allowing them to protect the user. -- Clem Rutter (talk) 13:45, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Moxy[edit]It's time for the community to look at who is causing all theses problems and solve it. Odd always the same people that just dont have the right skills to collaborate here. -- Moxy (talk) 15:54, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by AnonNep[edit]@Drmies - "If you think Eric is a troll, then don't feed him." No-one 'fed the troll', Eric chimed in on a discussion where he wasn't mentioned, in which the Arb case may be applicable. Where is the baiting? @Hal_peridol - "what about if rather than "militant feminists", someone had said, "Isn't it about time that these misogynists were dealt with once and for all?" If someone with a history with Eric, with similar Arb case finding against them, chose to comment like that on a discussion in which they weren't mentioned, wouldn't there be a substantial ban? AnonNep (talk) 16:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC) @Intothatdarkness - "Their constant use of innocent victim status when challenged or questioned regarding their conduct also runs counter to the ideal of collegial behavior (it fosters a chilling effect on discussions and an exclusionary mindset), yet it is conduct that continues to be tolerated and even encouraged by many." That makes sense, but, despite constant warnings, a history so relevant that others have raised it (above, which includes Arb prohibitions), Eric still entered a discussion where he is not mentioned, and makes that comment. And in your analysis Eric is the victim? AnonNep (talk) 18:17, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Intothatdarkness[edit]On the whole I attempt to avoid these boards and discussions, but I find this case an interesting example highlighting an issue Wikipedia seems unable to address - how to deal with passive-aggressive incivility and behavior (conduct which, by the way, is independent of gender). Was Eric's comment unacceptable? Likely yes. But is the continual passive-aggressive behavior and conduct of many who continually bring these issues here acceptable? One would hope not, but apparently they are. Many of those mentioned here (RationalObserver, Knowledgekid87, and Lightbreather) have a pattern of passive-aggressive accusations, forum shopping, and superficially polite badgering designed to further their views. Their constant use of innocent victim status when challenged or questioned regarding their conduct also runs counter to the ideal of collegial behavior (it fosters a chilling effect on discussions and an exclusionary mindset), yet it is conduct that continues to be tolerated and even encouraged by many. Eric is prone to ill-advised comments, and in this case he certainly made one. But I find the root conduct of others in this incident far more disturbing. Intothatdarkness 16:40, 27 February 2015 (UTC)\
Result concerning Eric Corbett[edit]
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Joshua Jonathan
[edit]| Joshua Jonathan is advised to use quotation marks or to paraphrase content from external sources. MER-C 03:26, 28 February 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Joshua Jonathan[edit]
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan
After reading some of those changes I have mentioned at #1 and #2, I had discussed about it with JJ [33],(his talk page as well) but his response seemed unhelpful. Recently, one of the page came up on my watchlist, which was recently altered by JJ, I read some of the text and searched it elsewhere, I found that the text violated copyrights. After that I have investigated some of his changes that are violating copyrights. I have listed a few here: User:Bladesmulti/Copyrights Other than that, there is a pattern of making huge amount of undiscussed/controversial changes, JJ also seems to have misunderstood both references and information at times that I have described below. He continues to fill talk pages with long posts, one of the recent example is this page, after the page was protected on request, he started to make long posts,[34]-[35] and seemed to be advocating his changes rather than reading what others had said, even when other users had disagreed with his ideas.[36] There has been some edit warring, recent example is a page and a template where he made some changes and soon those changes got reverted by other user, JJ would revert two times or until other user would stop.[37]-[38]-[39]-[40] Sometimes his changes are flawed, they include his own opinions or misinterpretations of references,(e.g. [41]-[42]-[43] [44]) he has been told to follow Wikipedia:BRD and to discuss the changes for avoiding these problems, even recently[45] however he rejects this idea as "that's not how BRD works. It's not a "rule" to lock a preferred version".[46]
Drmies: If those books are not viewable to you then you should just click on the Google search bar that contains the text and it will show you the results. Why we have to quote copyrighted material when we can rephrase ourselves? I have seen that such changes are removed quickly and revisions are deleted. Cailil: Are you actually saying that editors are allowed to copy from various book and websites as long as they have credited them in the citation(<ref></ref>)? Are you also saying that copying large sentences cannot be considered as the violation? I hope you seen [48], even if you think that they should be quoted, I still don't see that if it justifies the copyright infringement, as we know that inserting a quote in so many contributions is not allowed, quotes are usually valid for citing disputed or controversial things, not these these kinds of contributions. They must not be long. Bladesmulti (talk) 02:22, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Joshua Jonathan[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Joshua Jonathan[edit]That's a long list of complaints, and a very limited amount of words allowed to respond.
Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 06:53, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Hafspajen[edit]Where exactly was this discussed before? Don't get it. Just look at this. User talk:Bladesmulti/Mentorship, Joshua was one of the editor that saved Bladesmulti from be banned... by taking on him as a mentor. This mentorship resulted from an extended discussion of a siteban for Bladesmulti. See [52]. Look also at Joshuas archives, plenty of friendly and constructive exchanges between them ... And this is the thank you? Where exactly did was made any attempt to discuss this with him? Also users like Delibzr and AmritasyaPutra ... and other Indian topic editors ... going behind people's back like this instead of trying open discussion, dispute resolution noticeboard, or even ANI - first... I am sincerely disappointed. (P.S. I had a bad day yesterday and I said that aloud many times during the day this is just not happening...) Hafspajen (talk) 20:49, 25 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Drmies[edit]I'm not sure how the arbs or I are to read this, for instance, as "his own opinion or misinterpretation of reference". I've looked at all the supposed copyvio examples I could (some aren't available to me online), and I suppose I would have told Joshua Jonathan to use quotation marks more wisely, but that's about it. Their talk page comments don't seem to be lengthier than others on those same pages. In short--this is a matter for arbitration why? Drmies (talk) 20:37, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Kautilya3[edit]The main complaint of Bladesmulti seems to be valid, viz., JJ has been taking rather too much text from his sources as is. He needs to be warned about this. However, all other issues raised are not substantial. JJ is a gentleman, always ready to talk if you engage with him. He is also a great editor that has made enormous improvements to a lot of pages. I have learnt a lot by reading what he has written over the last few months and reading the sources that he brought to the table. He has my genuine thanks. I don't believe any sanctions are warranted. Kautilya3 (talk) 21:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Delibzr[edit]Looking at these examples and also the examples posted in his draft, I would say that these are blatant copyvios because no other mind in the world other than the author himself would come up with these long phrases that are often crossing over 20 or 30 exact words, it confirms that Joshua has completely taken from the books and failed to rewrite himself. Cailil should read WP:COPYVIO and know that even quoting is not an exemption from copyvio, in fact it would be same as saying that we can upload any copyrighted image after crediting the actual author but we cannot unless the actual owner has permitted. Furthermore the copyright violation seems to be massive in scale, considerably imitating the original. I believe that the main issue is with competence, he cannot understand the English language. Whenever you will read his replies of Four Noble Truths and WikiProject Buddhism, you may find that he leaves over half of the issues unanswered. His bludgeoning usually stops editors from contributing or participating on any of the talk pages. I was about to post at of WikiProject Buddhism, but after seeing wall of texts[53][54][55] I felt that I am rather going to get badgered, thus I avoided this RfC. These types of convesations[56] would lead anyone to think whether Joshua tries to involve himself in constructive discussion or only out-lenght others comments. Misleading edit summaries is the another reason that why I stopped reading most of the edits that he made on the articles where I have contributed. He would describe some of his edits as "ce"[57], though he happened to have added 800+ bytes of content and twice repeated the Tibetan term. Something he has not mentioned in his edit summary. Then again "ce",[58], he adds his opinion about Jung, removed the mention of W.Y. Evans-Wentz and replaces the sources. Back to "ce", Jung wasn't even mentioned in the article summary before. I don't see any discussion about these changes. Edits also lack page numbers,[59] what he termed here as "correction", doesn't seem to be any correction, instead it seems to be marginalizing a commonly accepted thought and limiting it to 1-2 authors. You can also see in this particular edit that Joshua has not added any page numbers and he removes the page number after introducing a new information. He described this edit as "correction", but he has not mentioned any reason behind marginalizing a common thought and removing page numbers. Delibzr (talk) 00:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC) @ JimRenge: Joshua Jonathan is open for discussion? If you are terming bludgeoning as "discussion", I definitely agree. Though he is not open for discussing the actual edits. And if he is, then why he didn't responded to Talk:Four Noble Truths#What happened to lead? On the day when another editor came and reverted to an older version, Joshua made TLDR summaries at Talk:Four Noble Truths#Proposed large-scale restructuring. Delibzr (talk) 16:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC) @ Joshua: You still haven't rewritten the material. You have erased some part, have quoted a sentence and edited a little part other than the quoted one. The newer diff doesn't make sense.[60] For the part outside the quote, first of all, periodisation is uncountable, it's an abstract noun. Therefore, you can't use 'a' before periodisation. It is not correct to say 'a periodisation', simply 'periodisation' would do. Statement by Sitush[edit]I am familiar with both Bladesmulti and Joshua Jonathan from my work in the Indic area of this project. They both do good stuff, they are both occasionally wrong, as also am I. This looks like a spat and one that should go away if it were not exacerbated by proceedings such as this. Drmies has a point regarding attribution/quotes but in the context of problems Indic, including frequent and massive copyvios, this report seems very minor. I'd suggest a minnow to both: JJ for perhaps not doing as much as they could to clarify their text, Blades for getting het up about it to the point that causes this extremis. Both of you, go away and do what you are good at: sanctions for this would benefit no-one in particular and would be detrimental to the project as a whole. Believe me, if you think that the Indic-related talk page commentary is TLDR bludgeoning, you've not even touched the tip of the iceberg with this situation. Next time, feel free to ask me to take a look (and then, hey ho, you will probably both be equally offended by the outcome). - Sitush (talk) 00:26, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by AmritasyaPutra[edit]Cailil, I think copyvio does apply here. Giving reference does not make a copyvio go away, only that it is not plagiarism any longer but copying the creative wording too closely is the copyright violation. Pasting walls of text and creating a lot of sections in talk page for same topic does hurt discussion and Joshua has done so and shows no intent of stopping though he has been told so. --AmritasyaPutraT 03:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Among the diffs mentioned, in this Joshua has used a derogatory term, Nazi but Witzel has not used it, is this not violation of BLP applied to him? And in this he makes a note, which is not a quote, by himself, about another author Kazanas. --AmritasyaPutraT 06:40, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Robert Walker[edit]These copyright issues such as [61] clearly have to be stopped and fixed. He was warned about this long ago, by Jpacobb in March 2013 [62]. Also he says he has a degree in theology - he should know that this is forbidden already. He has also made articles that are pure WP:QUOTEFARM [63] and another Zen ranks and hierarchy which duplicates many sections of a page What does it take to become a full-fledged Soto-shu priest and is it really worth the whole deal? difftool: [64] from antaiji.org. There are many other issues with his edits. He did a highly OR and inaccurate rewrite of the text, for the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path. These are as central to Buddhism as the Ten Commandments are to Judaism. Since his edit of 2nd Dec[65], it has been taken up by over a thousand web pages so far [66], including forum discussions, and a youtube video on the Buddha (as text to speech). These pages present JJ's OR text as the teachings of the Buddha, citing wikipedia. He removes large amounts of previous cited material. In the most extreme case, he reduced Anatta to 21% of its mature state, in two days [67]. His given main justification was to remove edits of a recently blocked user [68]. This is not credible as it was a stable article with many editors and no recent additions of large amounts of text. His edit summaries are confusing and misleading to other editors, presenting large scale edits and rewrites as "shortened"[69] [70], or "added info"[71], "rephrasing" for fundamental change of meaning [72]. He presents his major rewrites on talk pages as "clean up" [73], [74], [75], [76] - you wouldn't know from those summaries that he rewrote the articles and removed many sections. He used his own view on permitted citations in a tied RfC [77] to block a newbie Wikipedia editor User:ScientificQuest [78] attempting his first major edits. This editor says he is dong a masters thesis in Buddhist studies (states that here, para. 4 of his talk page comment [79]), so could reasonably consider himself expert. His edits cited from works used as text books in courses on Buddhist studies. He had every edit blocked from the article on Anatta by JJ and has now stopped editing wikipedia. This is part of a general pattern. After talk page discussions with many views presented, JJ then edits articles and posts on talk pages as if the outcome was consensus in support of his approach. Note that he treated my comment presenting my own views on Bikkhu Boddhi and other Buddhist sources a harassment, even removing a comment from the talk page in which I told ScientificQuest about the tied RfC [80], and on my talk page tells me to "Robert, stop your WP:HARASSMENT, and contribute to Wikipedia in a constructive way."[81] "Stop using Wikipedia as your personal playground." [82]. He also used BRDR instead of BRD and presents his new versions of mature articles as a fait accomplis Attempts at BRDR and request for rollback I believe he wishes to improve the Buddhism topic area, but I'd say a strong case of WP:IDONTHEAR on an RfC, and talk page discussions and his edits breach guidelines for WP:OR, WP:NPOV, WP:BRD, and consensus based editing. [83] In my view many of his edits in the Buddhism topic area from summer 2014 onwards are largely disruptive and damaging to wikipedia. Robert Walker (talk) 15:33, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by JimRenge[edit]Yes, JJ could have used more quotation marks. However, Bladesmulti´s complaints about alledged copyright violations might be seen as a rather dubious attempt to influence content disputes (see another example: [84], [85],[86], ANI). Bladesmulti´s allegation that JJ "(...) started to make long posts,[148]-[149] and seemed to be advocating his changes rather than reading what others had said, even when other users had disagreed with his ideas.[87]" is not appropriate ([88]). JJ is generally open to discussions, admits to mistakes quickly, and listens to reason. JimRenge (talk) 16:31, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by నిజానికి[edit]After reading that what has happened around and many editors are having same complaints, it is easy to consider that there is no way to gain consensus from Joshua Jonathan for changing the massive edits that he had originally added without consensus. One should just view Hinduism and History of Hinduism and differentiate the pre-Joshua[89][90] articles with the present version. Prior versions were not biased or promoted narrow point of views as final word like they do now and today these 2 articles looks like fork of each other. How we are going to sort out these problems? We can but not at all with Joshua Jonathan. I would conclude that this is a detailed complaint and multiple editors have evidenced the disruption on multiple namespaces. నిజానికి (talk) 16:38, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by John Carter[edit]This may not be particularly relevant to this particular discussion, but I thought it worth mentioning on Joshua's user talk page and I think it might be worth repeating here. Some of you may have seen that I place a lot of emphasis on other reference works. This includes looking at reviews of them. One of the reviews of the most recently highly regarded reference books in the field of religion in general made the rather remarkable statement that the articles on Buddhism by Louis de La Vallée-Poussin in the old Hasting Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics might be the best things ever written on those specific topics. That work is currently in the public domain and is even available over at commons. Other now PD reference works, like the Schaff-Herzog encyclopedia, are available at archive.org and elsewhere. It would certainly be possible, particularly with the Vallée-Poussin material, to use exact quotes with proper attribution in our own content, if more recent reference sources don't seem to disagree with it. The same would probably hold for some of the other PD reference sources out there, particularly those which are still thought of highly. John Carter (talk) 23:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by shrikanthv[edit]Would suggest a topic ban related to religion and philosophy, I firmly agree with the nominator as there is huge copyright violation that can be also seen at Neo Advaita and since JJ is emotionally attached to Buddhism, he mostly edit wars without consent. Here 1 & 2 removing prod tag even though he was the page creator and was not allowed to. Even in 2015, there are neutrality disputes, and many users tried to discuss, the agenda (the notion of truth according to JJ) was fixed and was not flexible to any change and often blaming contributors if any question raised. And the blame continues, like here and here, under talks at Neo Advaita, blaming so the called "supporters" and "devotees" for the issues with neutrality. Since this kind of editing and behavior also violates WP:SOAPBOX, as Wikipedia should keep a neutral tone without supporting superiority of one religion over other, I would suggest a topic ban for JJ. Shrikanthv (talk) 14:07, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Dorje108[edit]As I have stated here: "Jonathan’s method is to quickly re-write an entire article without warning or discussion. He leaves no opportunity for other editors who have worked on the article to explain or justify the current content or structure of the article." Jonathan's response to my statement is that "Extensive and detailed explanations have been given on the talkpages." That simply is not the case. His pattern is to put a brief "clean-up" summary after a massive rewrite; the summary is basically a list of arbitrary, non-specific statements. When challenged on his edits he becomes defensive and attempts to bully other editors. When editors challenge him on specific points, he frequently throws out "straw man" arguments, acting as if the other editors have made assertions which were not made, and then defending against that assertion. For example, in discussions on Jonathan's edits to the Four Noble Truths, Jonathan accused myself and other editors of being opposed to content from Western academic sources. This was never the case. I am opposed to Jonathan removing content based on "non-Western academic" sources. This just one example. There are many more problems with Jonathan's edits than simply copy right violations. Regards, Dorje108 (talk) 14:05, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by VictoriaGrayson[edit]Joshua Jonathan has remedied the alleged copyright issues. Lets move on.VictoriaGraysonTalk 15:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Joshua Jonathan[edit]
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Ghost Lourde
[edit]| Indefinitely topic banned by Dreadstar. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:54, 28 February 2015 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ghost Lourde[edit]
Given the user's contributions in other areas of the project, it seems that they are only unable to productively edit on Gamergate topics, but are able to be a productive member elsewhere. Given their behavior these past 24 hours (and especially its resumption after a lull overnight) and given the explicit declaration of battleground mentality, I feel that their behavior has crossed the line to unacceptable and that this AE is warranted. For note, a discussion regarding that link repeatedly added and removed was stated by EncyclopediaBob at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Gamergate_controversy_.282.29. My thanks to them for starting it. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 21:26, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Ghost Lourde[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Ghost Lourde[edit]I'm not at all pleased that we've decided to take issues to this magnitude--nor do I claim responsibility for having galvanized this. Battleground mentality? Well, I suppose--if we're looking to be hyperbolic. I'm not exactly remiss in characterizing debates as involving proponents and opponents, am I? Were I to be substantially refuted, I would desist--you have my word. Perhaps such a declaration was unwarranted, however. If you will it, I shall redact it. Moreover, I have made honest efforts to stay any and all vehemence from escaping my lips--no small feat, considering the topic being discussed. A feat which, might I add, certain editor's apparently haven't felt the desire to reciprocate. On the contrary, I believe the persistent deletion on patently unfounded grounds is the issue here. As you've stated, it's quite questionable if the article violates any guidelines at all. As such, all deletions should be stayed until the fact that violations have actually been perpetrated has been firmly cemented. I have requested that this be the case--a request which, quite impudently, has not been obliged, for the very same dubious reasons adduced above. To me, that is questionable behavior. IDHT? We're discussing the merits of potential revision to the article. I have countered the arguments against this with perfectly valid ones of my own. Presently, this dispute remains unresolved. Further debate shall be necessary in order to achieve the desired clarity. It seems I'm being treated quite maliciously for deigning to civilly extend my sentiments regarding the status quo of this article. Threats of blocking, arbitration enforcements, frivolous warnings--it's beginning to approach the end of the pale. Ghost Lourde (talk) 21:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Addendum: As I recall, I did not repost the link to that video--indeed, before this, I was unaware that it was even removed. That it violates BLP guidelines, I actually concur. I addressed this when I cited it, in fact: I was merely adducing it in order to demonstrate the more salient information that it contained. In any case, I do not consider the deletion to be objectionable--unlike some deletions that I can name. Statement by Jorm[edit]I was on my way here to open this issue myself and found that it was already open! Fortuitous. So I'll just paste what I'd already started writing. Ghost Lourde's behavior on [Talk:Gamergate controversy], it has become apparent that the editor is clearly not here to create an encyclopedia. Several instances speak to battleground mentality and refusal to listen to other editors about the use of a "source" that Ghost Lourde is repeatedly re-inserting a link to a source which contains fairly significant BLP violations. I don't think Ghost Lourde is here to help. They are here to push an agenda. I strongly believe we've spent enough person-hours on this editor and would like to see sanctions imposed.--Jorm (talk) 21:43, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by MarkBernstein[edit]At first, I thought this account was a satire -- and I'm still not entirely certain it's not. But the editor in question is extremely prolific -- to the point that it has become difficult to answer their questions without multiple edit conflicts. Their writing is impenetrable, their arguments unconvincing. Their effect is literally disruptive, though I’m not sure they intend to disrupt. I think a time-out and a mentor might be helpful, perhaps along with an inscribed copy of Strunk & White. MarkBernstein (talk) 21:56, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Bosstopher[edit]There's many reasons why Ghost Lourde should be topic banned, but since I dont feel like posting them all, here's the most obvious one. Ghost Lourde has readily admitted that he is orchestrating a pro-GG 'Operation Veracity.' As it says in the description ' Ultimately, the project is predicated upon the belief that doing so will benefit gamergate as a whole. ' He refuses to acknowledge that this 'operation' counts as POV pushing and canvassing. [93] Bosstopher (talk) 22:00, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Masem[edit]I'm not discounting the other points made, but I will challenge the notion the link added in is a BLP violation on a talk page - it would fall within BLPTALK (barring other issues) The specific article linked has no BLP violations at all (it mentions one name as the article outlines an analysis, but makes zero claims about this person). However, it will likely never be usable as a link in mainspace due to it being hosted on a site that is otherwise a major BLP problem, in addition to the poor quality of the source. BLPTALK does not prevent people from posting links on talk pages that might contain BLP information, as long as the BLP factors are not being discussed. Other behavior is problematic here. --MASEM (t) 22:02, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Ghost Lourde[edit]Satire? If it is, I burnt it. Anyhow, my prolificness is purely circumstantial--I'm afraid that, in order to preclude my arguments from being buried beneath a mountain of rebuttals, I've had to respond in as swift a fashion as I possibly could. If your problem is with prolificness in general, I would advise that you voice that concern to more individuals than only I. Furthermore, that my arguments are 'unconvincing' is not only a personal opinion, but utterly impertinent to the matter at hand. If I had a nickel for every ineffectual argument made on this site, I'd be a billionaire. If I had a nickel for every time someone was sanctioned for doing so, I'd be destitute. Additionally, that you perceive my writing to be--let's break out the scare-quotes here--'impenetrable' is yet another immaterial personal opinion. Furthermore, I have already addressed these allegations of possessing a 'battleground mentality'--see above. I'm not here to contribute? I'm here to push an agenda? My, those are some weighty allegations. What luck, then, that they're also utterly frivolous. I shall not deny that I am biased towards gamergate--I have stated my support for it frequently. However, that does not constitute an 'agenda'. Just because you, say, oppose anarcho-syndicalism, and Wikipedia has an article upon anarcho-syndicalism, does not mean that you have an agenda concerned with destroying that article. Once more, I'm afraid this is all quite circumstantial. Furthermore, I am discussing the merits of the article, as well as simultaneously suggesting improvements. That *is* what you're supposed to do on 'talk' pages, yes? I don't exactly see what your complaint is predicated upon. Ghost Lourde (talk) 22:17, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Drseudo[edit]Per Masem. I don't know enough about the current status of BLPTALK to agree that there's any specific violation with respect to the link that GL repeatedly posted to the talk page. However, the WP:BATTLE, WP:TE, and especially WP:CANVASS issues are enough to arrive at the correct decision on this one. drseudo (t) 22:37, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom[edit]Given this exchange it is obvious that the editor either lacks the competence to be editing in such a sensitive topic or is here merely to be disruptive. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:32, 27 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Ghost Lourde[edit]
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Spudst3r
[edit]| Out of scope for discretionary sanctions, but Spudst3r topic-banned pursuant to community sanctions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:21, 1 March 2015 (UTC) | ||||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Spudst3r[edit]
Alert about discretionary sanctions in the men's rights topic area in the last twelve months, on February 13, 2015
Spudst3r is a long dormant SPA; two of his three edits in 2014 were to Masculism and Men's rights movement and the vast majority of his edits in 2015 have been to the same topic area. His sudden return in 2015 to the MRM article coincides with several off-site calls for meatpuppets (e.g., [94]) in this topic area. In addition to the problem that he misleadingly summarizes sources, he reverts to his preferred version without waiting for the discussion to conclude. He either doesn't understand the original research and synthesis policies or he prefers to ignore them. In either case, the editor should be topic banned until he can demonstrate his ability to follow our content policies in the men's rights topic area. His talk page edits are disruptive and circular, mostly consisting of arguments that the MRM page and women's rights movement page must be treated equally or repetitions of (as many as 13) guidelines and principles per comment. --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 15:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Spudst3r[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Spudst3r[edit]Opening Remarks I hope that this arbitration is not administrated by editors who have a POV interest in gender-related subjects, since I believe I am being dogpiled by editors with a stake in those matters right now. I don't say that to cast aspersions: anyone can look at the history of the men's rights movement article and see a long history of nonstop reverting. The men's rights movement article is currently under a Neutrality notice dispute right now Almost immediately after I started making edits to the men's rights movement page, I was accused of being a sockpuppet as a way to further limit my participation: I was thoroughly investigated and eventually exonerated only after an IP lookup and diff commits proved it would be near impossible for the allegations to have been true. Third, when the other user in this matter spoke up about another user spreading false sockpuppet accusations, the entire process was turned around into a vote on topic banning him. That's what I call a chilling effect. I think accusations of tendentious editing, sockpupetry, and meatpuppetry reflect a seriously unhealthy attitude towards contributing to Wikipedia. New editors who make bold but good faith changes are now being quickly accused of all sorts of things - pick a WP:, any WP: -- to scare them away from participating. It bites newcomers, demonstrates Badfaith and does not promote civility. A Few General comments:
Response to Specific Accusations I ignored examples before Feb. 15 in light of Cailli (talk · contribs)'s comment, Please instruct me if that interpretation is incorrect. Here we go: Example 1 & 2:
Example 3 regarding my "tendentious" comments:
Example 4:
Example 5:
Example 6
Example 6 / 7: Sonicyouth writes:
Example 8 & 9 which Sonicyouth is literally now bringing to this arbitration after making zero attempts to discuss them in the talk page:
Example 10: This is the first time concerns with these edits have been raised by Sonicyouth:
Conclusion: In my contributions I have made extensive (possibly excessive?) use of the talk page. I used citations extensively in my new additions, and edited articles to reflect concerns that are raised in discussions. Perfect or not, I believe my contributions demonstrate a good faith effort to making consensus seeking progress in areas that have otherwise been lacking. I have lots of activity in this article, yes, but not activity worthy of disciplinary sanction. I think my banning or blocking has the potential to have a real chilling effect on new contributors. Spudst3r (talk) 01:14, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
References
Statement by Cailil[edit]Diffs 1-5 are not relevant to the case since the notification is post Feb 13. However, Diff 6 was a revert of original research I removed from the Men's rights movement article. The material a) had no connection to the subject b) it was being used in essay form to synthesize a point and c) it was a copy-paste of the majority of the linked article's abstract (probably a copyvio). Spudst3r then reverted its subsequent removal again diff 7. Diff 9 falls into the category of casting unfounded aspersions about other users. Here Spudst3r is parroting the r/mensrights reddit party line that feminists run wikipedia and the only way to solve "their article's" problem is to
Even so I think a final warning and advice on how to fly right might be enough here--Cailil talk 20:18, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Binksternet[edit]After I saw just a few of Spudst3r's contributions to the article and talk page of the men's rights movement topic, I thought that he was WP:NOTHERE to build the encyclopedia. Rather, he is here to make the men's rights movement look good, to the best of his ability. Thankfully that motivation has not resulted in too much damage, since there are experienced and neutral page watchers keeping track of activists such as Spudst3r. I, too, was taken aback at Diff 9 with its display of battlefield attitude. Spudst3r is too deep into advocacy to see that this comparison is nonsensical, that the men's rights movement assertions of "male disadvantage" are overwhelmingly dismissed by sociology and anthropology scholars who should not have to remind us of the two-thousand-plus years of thoroughly established male advantage. In that same diff Spudst3r tries to argue against reliance on scholarly sources. Wikipedia does not need this kind of disruption. Binksternet (talk) 04:54, 18 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by abhilashkrishn[edit]When considering all the points mentioned by Sonicyouth86 and Spudst3r, I can't see anything wrong in Spudst3r's actions. The user is actively using the wikipedia for positive contributions and the sources are well acclaimed. - abhilashkrishn talk 20:02, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Statement by Strongjam[edit]No stance on this request, but I am surprised by how broad the wording on the GG sanctions is. Based on the wording I think this case would qualify, MRM is certainly controversial and there is some overlap between GG and MRM. Clarification from the arbitrators if they meant for it to be applied this broadly might be needed though, should there be at least some connection to the Gamergate controversy first? — Strongjam (talk) 20:11, 19 February 2015 (UTC) Statement by Tony Sidaway[edit]Complaint aside, I think the admins might encourage this editor in the direction of terseness. --TS 06:35, 20 February 2015 (UTC) This is getting beyond a joke. Spudst3r has just added another 2000 characters of unreadable apologia, bringing his personal contribution to approximately 7% of the entire page in which several other cases are being discussed. I suggest we permanently block him as functionally incompetent for the most basic tasks of editing. I'm serious. Just block him for incompetence and move on before this page turns into an airport novel. --TS 09:01, 1 March 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Spudst3r[edit]
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