Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive301
Clean Copy
[edit]| Clean Copy is topic banned from Rudolf Steiner and antroposophy, broadly construed--Ymblanter (talk) 19:41, 3 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Clean Copy[edit]
I have also reported the edit warring to WP:FTN. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:53, 31 January 2022 (UTC) I have replied to Clean Copy that a term does not have to be mentioned verbatim in order to fulfill WP:V requirements (the term The information that Steiner was a rank pseudoscientist is spread in various Wikipedia articles, but till now never got centralized at Rudolf Steiner. See e.g. [6]. tgeorgescu (talk) 10:35, 31 January 2022 (UTC) @Clean Copy: I did not edit war against
Discussion concerning Clean Copy[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Clean Copy[edit]User:Tgeorgescu's original insertion of the text "He was also a peddler of rank pseudoscience" used a citation that linked to a specific page that said only, "Effects of the preparation have been verified scientifically." This clearly did not support the claim. It did not occur to me that the link he inserted (which was to page 32) was not to the page he meant to cite (page 31). Once the page reference was clarified, and further citations were added, I modified the language from "a peddler of rank pseudoscience," in which "peddler" and "rank" were loaded terms supported by no citation, and a clear violation of WP:EPSTYLE, to "His ideas have been termed pseudoscientific," which is clearly accurate and less strident. I am certainly open to other language that reflects the tone and content of the citations and appropriate to an encyclopedia. There has been no violation of WP:3RR, for example; I just made these two changes. Clean Copytalk 03:59, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
Statement by PaleoNeonate[edit]More a detail than a statement, I noticed Clear Copy recently when assessing the state of some related articles after a notice at FTN. My comment is to share these links in relation to a conflict of interest: 1, 2 (agreed 6-0 by ARBCOM at the time in 2006). —PaleoNeonate – 08:20, 31 January 2022 (UTC) Statement by Alexbrn[edit]
Statement by an IP editor[edit]
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Clean Copy[edit]
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71.114.58.144
[edit]| Blocked as a standard admin action for 6 months -- Guerillero Parlez Moi 20:35, 3 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning 71.114.58.144[edit]
I filed a complaint about this user at WP:AIV; it was declined because the user's last warning was "stale". I requested protection for Steven Salaita and Steven Salaita hiring controversy at WP:RFPP; nothing was done because an administrator said there hadn't been enough disruptive activity to justify protection. I filed a complaint about this user at AN/I and the only outcome was that Drmies deleted some of this user's edits. So I am wondering how long this has to go on for before we do something to prevent this user from making further BLP violations. For the record, I do not personally agree with the views of Steven Salaita, but we have BLP standards that should be upheld.
Discussion concerning 71.114.58.144[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by 71.114.58.144[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning 71.114.58.144[edit]
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207.47.175.199
[edit]| Closing with no action. At the same, let me warn 207.47.175.199 informally that bending rules [10] can lead to getting blocked if there is a pattern of doing so. Having a minority (or majority) opinion nor being an IP editor grants no special privilege or immunity. You might want to back off just a bit, as you are uncomfortably close to that cliff. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 19:06, 11 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning 207.47.175.199[edit]
Discussion concerning 207.47.175.199[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by 207.47.175.199[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning 207.47.175.199[edit]
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Ypatch
[edit]| There are no saints here. Closing without action. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 23:35, 12 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ypatch[edit]
Ypatch ought to create consensus for removing the old content, but instead of that, he is railroading other users by beginning a wrong RFC and I told him this. The user has reverted other users three times while he only commented once in talk about the dispute. AFAIK, because the content has been there since 2019 and the user adding the content had no problems at that time, Ypatch needed to make consensus before removing the section. Instead of that, he says inserting the content needs consensus. He has opened a RFC for insertion of the content while the RFC ought to be for removal of the content. Mr @Vanamonde93:: But the first line Wikipedia:Silence and consensus reads that "Consensus can be presumed to exist until disagreement becomes evident (typically through reverting or editing)." That content was there for 2 and a half year. More than one month later after Kazemita entered the content, Stefka (now banned) only changed the title of the section. So the consensus existed. Ali Ahwazi (talk) 11:45, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
I informed/notified the mentioned user Here
Discussion concerning Ypatch[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Ypatch[edit]I really don't want to get involved in this, but even those in favor of having this content in the article are saying the content needs improvements. Ypatch (talk) 09:10, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
Statement by Vice regent[edit]Vanamonde93, I agree that consensus is achieved through discussion, but I don't believe Ypatch's behavior has been constructive.
Other examples of Ypatch's recent unconstructive engagement:
Ypatch's behavior is demoralizing. I spend hours in crafting a thoughtful response (researching, wordsmithing proposals etc), only to be ignored, reverted and stonewalled.VR talk 17:35, 5 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Aquillion[edit]It is true that Ypatch shouldn't edit-war, but participation in a single brief edit war that hasn't breached the 3RR isn't sufficient to bring to WP:AE, especially when the filer also participated. It is also true that the text is longstanding; it was created (shortly) before the editor's other account was banned, so WP:BANREVERT doesn't apply, and we don't automatically revert someone's contributions just because they were later banned. But the article is extremely low-traffic, so even though the text has been there for a year it's also reasonable to conclude that it doesn't have a strong consensus behind it - at least not to the point of rushing to AE to defend that extremely low level of implicit consensus. Also, it is absolutely not the case that text is required to be left untouched while discussions or an RFC is ongoing, so Ypatch's reverts are at least not a violation of the specific RFC moderation sanction mentioned. But honestly everyone would benefit from worrying less about conduct at this stage and focusing more on content and the underlying dispute. --Aquillion (talk) 17:54, 5 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Bahar1397[edit]VR and AA edit warred too, but it seems that if one doesn't agree with VR's version proposals then to him that's something that should be brought to AE. That seems like "civil battleground mentality", which apparently he has been warned to stop doing already[25]. Bahar1397 (talk) 19:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Ypatch[edit]
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Iskandar323
[edit]| Duration of topic ban is hereby reduced to "time served". Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:27, 13 February 2022 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Diff notifying the imposing administrator. (NB: They are now inactive Statement by Iskandar323[edit]I would like the length of my topic ban to be modified on the basis that the enforcement process was interfered with by Icewhiz socks. While I understand and accept my fault in the matter, I think the length of my TBAN is worth reconsidering in light of the latest round of Icewhiz SPI revelations (those involving Eostrix), which subsequently saw the account that launched the enforcement appeal, 11Fox11, and the two supporting accounts, Geshem Bracha and Free1Soul, blocked as Icewhiz socks. Upon my appeal to Callanecc, the administrator who imposed the TBAN, they agreed that based on these SPI revelations there may be scope for a modification of the ban's length. In their last active edit on Wikipedia, Callanecc noted their willingness to reconsider the length of the ban
Statement by Callanecc[edit]Statement by Shrike[edit]Questions to Iskandar323
Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Iskandar323[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by (uninvolved editor 1)[edit]Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)[edit]Result of the appeal by Iskandar323[edit]
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Grandmaster
[edit]| Grandmaster is indefinitely topic banned from AA2 signed, Rosguill talk 15:47, 18 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Grandmaster[edit]
Grandmaster has veteran experience of POV-pushing with extensive history of blocks in Armenia-Azerbaijan topic in two Wikipedias. The provided diffs are just a few recent examples to show he has not changed but learned how to avoid bans by WP:CPUSH-ing as shown in diffs above. I think he is there not as much as to build encyclopedia, but to advance official Azerbaijan' positions on Wikipedia, in a nationalist mood, prohibited by WP:ADVOCACY. He is apparently unable contribute neutrally in topics he has ethnic conflict of interest with, hence I believe a topic ban from AA area, broadly construed (including Turkey and Turkic world), for at least 1 year, is required to help to sober him up, while allowing him to edit in topics he does not have conflict of interest with. I was advised by admins Rosguill and Robert McClenon to take the case from ANI to AE, and so I did. UPDATE 25.01.2022 Grandmaster worryingly changed his replies here
When this violation of talk page guidelines was noted by an opponent, he resented till another user notes the violation Worryingly, Grandmaster now glorifies Epressa.am as a reliable example of Armenian media, to prove a point, despite what he refers to is not even an article by a journalist but a text of an unknown person' Facebook rave with an attention seeking FRINGE title “Did we (Armenians) drop hydrogen bomb on Agdam and Zangilan?”. Not sure about 2014 award, but that website is apparently hacked and vandalised, everyone can see the sheer random nonsense posted there: 1 2. --Armatura (talk) 20:38, 25 January 2022 (UTC) UPDATE 29.01.22 Grandmaster, when the source is so obviously poor, it does not merit a discussion at WP:RS/P. WP:QUESTIONABLE sources are unsuitable for citing contentious claims (in article or talk page - does not matter) and minimal WP:COMPETENCE is required to see the obvious. The fact that you do not / choose not to see it after being on Wikipedia over a decade, your continued defence of that source even here, against all the evidence, is a sign of incompetence or inability to remain neutral in editing/discussing I am afraid. And what you call a "witch hunt" was a transfer of ANI discussion to AE, as advised by admins, that's all. --Armatura (talk) 19:34, 29 January 2022 (UTC) UPDATE 02.02.2022 Many thanks for time and effort spent on evaluating this case, Rosguill and Ealdgyth. Are you happy to close it per your concensus? Best wishes --Armatura (talk) 17:13, 2 February 2022 (UTC)
Notified on talk page by standart alert. Discussion concerning Grandmaster[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Grandmaster[edit]This is already 4th report filed on me by Armatura. Such persistence in filing frivolous reports one after another indicates that this user is engaged in WP:Witchhunt. Previously Armatura joined now banned user Steverci to accuse me of various things, but that report was dismissed as retaliatory. [39] Then he filed a 3RR report on me [40], which was dismissed without action, and he did it when I reported a banned IP user, so it appears to be another retaliatory report. After that he filed a report on WP:ANI, asking to ban me: [41] So this is the report # 4, which for the most part repeats the report at WP:ANI. Regarding Agdam, one can see that Armatura started the latest discussion by bringing up a BBC report that has no relevance to the city of Agdam, to support his claim that the term "Hiroshima of Caucasus" is used as propaganda by Azerbaijan (BBC says nothing like that, btw). But as was demonstrated by myself and other users, the term Hiroshima of Caucasus is used not just by Azerbaijan, but it was coined by British journalist and political analyst Thomas de Waal, and is used by mainstream international media such as Euronews, France24, AP, The independent, and even Armenian reporter for IWPR. I quoted epress.am just to show that the analogy with devastation by nuclear weapons is used by Armenian media too. I did not propose to include it into the article. In fact, Armatura's claiming that the term Hiroshima of Caucasus is propaganda after it was demonstrated that it originated outside of Azerbaijan and is used by media all over the world is tendentious editing in itself. Then he accuses me of removing claims of an village head about late president of Azerbaijan allegedly concealing his place of birth for political reasons, but how qualified is a villager to make judgements about the motives of the Soviet leadership? Even if it is reported by a reliable source, it does not make the claims of a man in the street reliable or notable. But I only removed that line once, and when Armatura restored it, I left it at that. There was no edit war, or anything of the kind. I just tried to attract attention to questionability of that claim, per WP:BRD. Regarding my blocks in en:wiki, as you can see, they are from 15 years ago, and incident at Russian wiki is from 12 years ago, and has nothing to do with en:wiki. Per WP:Boomerang, I think the admins need to look at Armatura's own activity. Armatura repeatedly violated WP:AGF and WP:Civil, making personal attacks and incivil comments every time I try to have a polite discussion with him. For example, in his report at WP:ANI, he accuses me of having a "narrow vision in which Armenians are "the bad guys"", which clearly is a bad faith assumption. In this report here, he accuses me of "advancing official Azerbaijan' positions on Wikipedia, in a nationalist mood", with no credible evidence whatsoever, which is again not in line with WP:AGF. How civil is it to write to another editor: do not test the patience of other editors with nonsense, it may be viewed as trolling? Here he told me: Because you simply refuse to understand when I explain anything, in a nihilistic fashion Bad faith assumption like this, when he accused me of not reacting to another user's erroneous closure of RFC, even though Armatura was explained by a Wikipedia admin that he cannot hold against someone not doing something: [42] Another bad faith assumption at the same page: [43] Here he demands from me "repentance", which he would "perhaps accept"? [44] As was noted by an uninvolved user at WP:ANI, Armatura WP:BLUDGEONs the discussion by arguing with my every vote and every comment, [45]. You may wish to check Talk:2020 Nagorno-Karabakh ceasefire agreement and Talk:Agdam#RfC_for_"Hiroshima_of_Caucasus" to get the full picture of my interactions with this user. Previously, Armatura was placed on interaction ban with another user: [46]. In sum, Armatura has difficulties with keeping it cool when engaging in discussions with other editors, which is why admins may wish to see if editing such a contentious topic as Armenia-Azerbaijan relations is something that he should be allowed to do. His behavior creates nervous and unhealthy atmosphere. Rosguill, please note that I only cited epress.am once, at the talk page of Agdam. I made no further reference to that source. Every other mention was in response to Armatura, who brought it up again at his talk page and ANI. Also, the article was not nationalist, quite the contrary, it was critical of those people who made racist comments about Azerbaijani people and justified destruction of Azerbaijani cities. Armatura takes words out of context, but context is important. The author does not endorse racist attitudes, but protests them. Also, Wikipedia has no censorship, and profanity is not forbidden. Regarding epress.am, it is certainly not a nationalist publication. Some information about them could be found here [47] [48] And here is an interview with its chief editor, who says that his publication is against nationalism, militarism, homophobia and violence. [49] It won Free Media Awards in 2014. [50] If you check English Wikipedia, it is used a lot in Armenia related articles. Grandmaster 21:53, 25 January 2022 (UTC) Once again, epress was not proposed to be used as a reference in the article. It was only linked once at the talk page in the discussion, as an example of a term usage, and that news-site is used as a reference in dozens of articles about Armenia in Wikipedia. If it is not acceptable, the issue should be taken to WP:RSN, to designate it as deprecated, and stop its usage in Wikipedia. I don't think that a simple mention at talk is such a big issue as to demand someone to be banned or sanctioned. I changed some of my comments here to save space, as I was advised I need to keep it short. Grandmaster 21:53, 25 January 2022 (UTC)
Additional comments.
Grandmaster 17:06, 24 January 2022 (UTC) ZaniGiovanni, you forgot to mention who brought up that source time after time at various places. Certainly not me. Grandmaster 14:58, 27 January 2022 (UTC) ZaniGiovanni, it was actually me who suggested to stop arguing about that source right there, at talk of Agdam: [52] But Armatura kept taking it to various boards, and brought it up even at his own talk page, when I tried to discuss with him a technical issue. Grandmaster 16:49, 27 January 2022 (UTC) Admins may wish to look into ZaniGiovanni's own reverting activity today. He removed Didier Billion: [53], claiming that he was a genocide denier, even though the article has nothing to do with genocide, and Billion was interviewed by France24, major French news outlet. Normally, if you question general reliability of a source, WP:RSN is where you discuss it, and reach consensus with the community. Then he removed RFE/RL, which is a reliable source, claiming that he sees from photos that the mosques' roof is there: [54], when it clearly is not. If you compare photos #4 and #5 in RFE article, it is obvious that the metal hip roof is gone, plus he engages in WP:OR. Clearly POV edits. Grandmaster 16:14, 29 January 2022 (UTC) ZaniGiovanni, it is clear from this picture taken before occupation that the triangular shaped metal roof is gone. Plus, you cannot engage in WP:OR and decide, what was and what was not removed. RFE/RL is a reliable source, and cannot be removed just because you disagree with it. Grandmaster 16:36, 29 January 2022 (UTC) Rosguill, topic banning an editor for just posting a link to a talk page discussion is too harsh. And I don't think I held up author's "Armenian ethnicity as somehow equivalent to speaking for Armenians or Armenian sources". I just responded to the claim that the source was "ultra-nationalist", and tried to demonstrate that it was not. I edited Wikipedia for many years, and made tens of thousands of useful contributions, created many new articles. I don't think it is a proportional punishment for whatever I did wrong. Grandmaster 19:52, 29 January 2022 (UTC) Rosguill, I think you do not understand why that argument was made. Armatura argued that the term "Hiroshima of Caucasus" was used only by Azerbaijani propaganda. But it was demonstrated by many users that it is used by mainstream Western media as well (please see comments at RFC there). I also pointed out that it was used by an Armenian reporter from IWPR, who cannot be engaged in pro-Azerbaijani propaganda. That is the only reason why the nationality of the reporters was mentioned, to demonstrate that they could not be a part of Azerbaijan's propaganda. I also pointed out nationalities of other sources, to show that the term originated and was used beyond Azerbaijan. Grandmaster 20:08, 29 January 2022 (UTC) Rosguill, it is not about ethnic identity, but rather the fact that the source originates outside of Azerbaijan. I also mentioned nationality of British journalist Thomas de Waal, for example. But I did it just to show that the term used by sources outside of Azerbaijan. Grandmaster 20:17, 29 January 2022 (UTC) Rosguill, regarding epress, it was never used as a reference in the article, not it was proposed to be used. I only linked it once at the talk page discussion. I understand it could be a problem when unreliable pieces are used as references, but it was never my intention. I take the point that it is not a good quality source, and I will never make any mention of such sources anywhere. But a person can a make a mistake occasionally, I think. We are all human, after all. I don't think it is a adequate punishment to ban a log time editor with thousands of contributions for just one link posted at talk page. Grandmaster 20:28, 29 January 2022 (UTC) ZaniGiovanni, once again, I did not defend epress, I only demonstrated here that it is not a nationalist source, as it was claimed. Grandmaster 20:39, 29 January 2022 (UTC) Statement by Dennis Brown[edit](clerking only, no comments on the merits)
Statement by ZaniGiovanni[edit]Since the ANI discussion, I was thinking wheter the suggested AE case would be opened or not, as there are other diffs of Grandmaster's POV pushing that weren't discussed. I believe as an involved party with the previous case, I should add my input. Some recent edits by Grandmaster that I believe weren't posted in either of noticeboards:
I'm not an admin, I don't know what appropriate measures are against users in such cases. As someone involved in the ANI discussion, I wanted to share the problematic edits of Grandmaster I've noticed recently. ZaniGiovanni (talk) 02:24, 24 January 2022 (UTC)
Result concerning Grandmaster[edit]
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Iskandar323
[edit]| Maybe a 1RR violation, maybe not, but regardless, Shrike is cautioned against filing reports here that serve as the first rather than last step in the WP:DR process. (Hep'ly ever after.) El_C 01:59, 19 February 2022 (UTC) |
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Request concerning Iskandar323[edit]
Discussion concerning Iskandar323[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Iskandar323[edit]I count one revert and one mountain out of a molehill. Shrike has presented a series of edits, none of which remain in place or are being edit warred over, and the most recent of which is under active discussion (started by me) on the talk page as part of a healthy WP:BRD cycle. The second edit Shrike has presented is not clearly a revert. It was a different edit, making a different change and with a different premise, as explained in the edit comments. It has not been labelled as "Tag:Undo" and the edits before it has not been labelled as "Tag:Reverted", so clearly it was not enough of a revert to rile any bots, but, in any case, in the face of opposition from other editors, the matter was promptly dropped and everyone moved on. ... except for Shrike, who has notably not been involved in any of this editing, has not participated in or engaged with the discussion, did not raise any issues with me on my talk page, and appears to be only here for the drive-by attempted elimination of another editor (over edits that for everyone actually involved are dust on the wind). Four other editors were editing the page at the same time, and none of them see the contrived picture that Shrike now presents or have raised any issues on my talk page. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought that AE was a recourse of last resort for raising serious complaints about disruptive editing, not raking over non-existent edit conflicts that have already being resolved by the parties involved. At this point I would like to note that Shrike has been fairly relentlessly in pursuing me from a disciplinary standpoint the moment I set foot in the IP area, giving me my ARBPIA warning, raising an AE against me, being the only editor to turn up to object to my TBAN appeal (after just 15 minutes with a long list of grievances combed from my talk archive) and now here, having combed my recent edits. Aside from Icewhiz socks, Shrike is the only editor who has taken up major issue with my editing, despite our interaction outside of these enforcement actions being almost non-existent. I would like in turn to request an interaction ban between myself and Shrike so that this can end. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:13, 18 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Nableezy[edit]A user editing in good faith would leave a note to the user saying they believe there was a 1RR violation and ask them to self-revert. This is a blatant example of attempting to use AE as a weapon and it should result in a boomerang sanction for bad faith usage of this board. nableezy - 19:33, 18 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Daveout[edit]This escalated a bit too quickly imo. I agree with Nableezy's suggested course of action (which should be the default procedure): when an editor is acting in good faith and not too disruptively (which I think is Iskandar323's case), it is best to talk to them directly, and ask them to self-revert before filling an AE complaint. (this happened to me before: I broke 1rr and editors, including nableezy, offered me a chance to self-revert and I appreciated that). - Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Iskandar323[edit]
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Venkat TL
[edit]| Those involved are reminded to moderate their tone, and to refrain from edit warring. While no further action is necessary at this time, it could become so if those issues continue to be disruptive. Seraphimblade Talk to me 05:34, 19 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Venkat TL[edit]
I got to read about this all after the notification made by this editor on a familiar noticeboard. With so much disruption in an entire day, I think this editor is unfit to contribute to this contentious topic area.
Discussion concerning Venkat TL[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Venkat TL[edit]TLDR: A list of minor stuff and content disputes have been grossly misrepresented and editorialized by User:Abhishek0831996 in his report to make them appear as though they are 'chronic, intractable problems'. The attempt is to paint a sinister picture. All this because, I believe User:Abhishek0831996 did not like the article I created. Full response: User:Abhishek0831996 has published this list of diffs on a mobile, I think it is not easy to do this on a mobile, so credits to Abhishek0831996 for his dedication, time and efforts. I have never come across this user Abhishek0831996. So this report by him came as a surprise and looks very odd to me. Before bringing this to the admin page, Abhishek0831996 never discussed his concerns with me on my user talk page, where I could have explained and resolved every concerns he had about me and my intentions. Straightaway bringing this to the Admin Arbitration page for admin action, makes me suspect that, Abhishek0831996's intention here is not to resolve the situation or find a solution but the intention is to snipe me, using gross misrepresentation of the actual facts. Why? I have no idea, but my guess would be probably because he did not like the article I had created. Whatever the case may be, here is my side of the story.
I conclude saying I have acted in good faith with best intentions and contributed constructively. I will be happy to elaborate more if any further clarification is needed from me. Please ping me when you ask the question. Venkat TL (talk) 15:05, 13 February 2022 (UTC)
Statement by CapnJackSp[edit]@RegentsPark and Stifle: But see how Venkat TL has failed to justify the misrepresentation of source as evidenced on diff no.1.[79] He claims that the CNN source supported his statement when it didn't. See the discussion at Talk:Bulli Bai case#February 2022. I would also mention that just 4 days ago Venkat TL was reported on edit warring noticeboard, where he was asked to stop with personal attacks[80] and the report evidenced that he was undoubtedly edit warring. The diffs cited on this report came after this yet another recent episode of disruption. Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 11:32, 14 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by username[edit]Result concerning Venkat TL[edit]
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Mzajac
[edit]| I think Paul Siebert summed it up well "... I see not much problem with you as a user (in that sense, this request may be seen as frivolous), but I am not sure your behaviour is consistent with your admin's status."
WP:AE is not authorized to review or sanction for WP:ADMINACCT directly. Because of this, yes, the filing was premature, for if Mzajac was not an admin, the request would be considered trivial and no sanction would be forthcoming. In my opinion, the behavior of Mzajac (as an admin) was extremely subpar and it appears to be an ongoing issue. We just can't do anything about it here. Only WP:RFAR may review instances of "Repeated or consistent poor judgment" outlined in WP:ADMINACCT. Whether it is ripe for Arbitration or not, I do not know, as that is a pretty high threshold. I'm not going to bother to warn or instruct Mzajac, for as an admin, they are expected to know what the standard of conduct is, even when they have so woefully failed to live up to it. I am closing without action because there is no action we can take here that would be appropriate. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 13:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Mzajac[edit]
Discussion concerning Mzajac[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Mzajac[edit]Re: User:Paul Siebert, composing a reply to this enforcement request will take more of my time and attention than individual article edits in spare moments. I hope you can appreciated that this is serious and not something I can just rattle off. —Michael Z. 04:43, 14 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Paul Siebert[edit]First, to save space, I just provide a link to this my post [81]. I don't think calling other users "reactionary" should be considered a serious violation. However, I propose to take a look at that from different perspective.
In connection to that, I am wondering how can all of that be consistent with admin's status?--Paul Siebert (talk) 04:23, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Mzajac[edit]
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Kautilya3
[edit]| Withdrawn by filer.--RegentsPark (comment) 17:42, 22 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Kautilya3[edit]Thinking more about this, while I still stand by my statement, since there is no possible scenario where a 70k+edits editor is going to be action-ed here on the basis of 5-6 contested diffs from someone like me, I do not want to waste others' time as he has done mine. I'd like to WITHDRAW the following report, with apologies for those who already did go through this. Hemantha (talk) 13:57, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
(all bolding in quotes mine)
He has expressed his own novel interpretations of WP:RS previously to disregard sources he doesn't like. Above diffs show that lackadaisical (at best) attitude towards source-text integrity in mainspace edits. But since it is employed to push specific convictions, I believe they require scrutiny. The WP:OWN behavior shown by the bristling at corrections, minor or major, and the WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality of filing reports (two in the past week - on me, on Venkat) make civil attempts at countering the POV push unduly difficult. Hemantha (talk) 10:49, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Kautilya3[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Kautilya3[edit]Please put this on hold for a couple of days as I am quite busy in RL at the moment. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:04, 22 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Aquillion[edit]Everything that applies above applies here, too; this is basically a content dispute. Also, most of the time if you feel the filer is at fault for problems in the specific dispute they brought to AE, it makes more sense to suggest a WP:BOOMERANG than to start another section - but either way, this doesn't reach that point. Simply being wrong (assuming they are wrong) or having idiosyncratic views on how a source can be used isn't enough for something to be a conduct issue on its own; they have to be so obviously wrong that it either strains good faith or raises WP:COMPETENCE issues. None of that applies there - if we brought AE sanctions against users for stuff of this level, controversial topic areas would have almost no editors left. --Aquillion (talk) 07:36, 22 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Venkat TL[edit]@Aquillion: With the 500 word limit to the response in place. I don't think it is possible to merge the two requests. --Venkat TL (talk) 08:21, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Kautilya3[edit]
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Hemantha
[edit]| All editors are reminded that (1) various WP:DR processes exist to help resolve content dispute; (2) that it is best to come to AE only if you can demonstrate a pattern of disruptive behavior across multiple articles; and (3) WP:AGF --RegentsPark (comment) 17:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Hemantha[edit]
The user created his account in 2013 but started any serioous editing in only November 2021. He came to the page on 2022 Karnataka hijab row on 15 February, roughly a week after it was created, and started contesting bits of existing content, claiming it to be WP:OR. In all cases, the sources do support the content in some form, even though they might be open to interpretation. Wholesale deletion would be uncalled for. For this little bit of contribution to the main page, he made some 32 posts on the talk page between 15 February and 17 February (and apparently 8 more posts today). As an example of how this discussion goes, we can look at the discussion concerning diff 4 above, where it is apparent that content was supported by the cited source from the beginning, but the editor is not satisfied despite being shown several quotes from the source for support. Rise in student numbers is a commonplace phenomenon worldwide, and is in no way central to this dispute. No good faith editor should be arguing such details. (By the way, a later paragraph in the #Background section gives statistics for the rise in numbers, along with a comprehensive source.) He has argued about the spelling of a Kannada word, despite the fact that spellings stated were as in the cited sources. After having argued till yesteray that negotiations happened in December, today he started supporting the idea that ban was decided in January. If the ban happened only in January, what was being negotiated in December? It wouldn't make sense. He has even edit-warred over where a reflist-talk box should go on the talk page! And there was discussion on it on my user talk as well. Ever since he came on the scene, all new writing of content has stopped, despite new developments taking place practically everyday. We are having to spend all our time arguing with him. His overall profile shows a similar trend, with low contributions (37%) to the main space. His top edited page in the mainspace shows only deletions, no new content. His other editing is similar as well. Despite being clever and quite capable, this editor is showing only tendencies of WP:DE and WP:NOTHERE. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 14:54, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Aquillion, all conduct issues ride on content issues to some extent (unless it is egregious misconduct). The point here is that the editor's tendency to do zero content work, but to engage in endless haranguing on the talk pages is in effect a WP:heckler's veto, and is obstructing other people's content work. The objection to "instigators" terminology is fine. I haven't contested it. But (a) adding tags like I have worked on enough contentious pages for long enough that I know what disputes are. These are not "disputes". This is just mindless haranguing. He did it again this morning by the way, and he also deleted the content for which RegentsPark said "what the heck is Hemantha going on about". -- Kautilya3 (talk) 22:18, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Hemantha[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Hemantha[edit]About the diffs reported here:
Rest of the screed by filer shows more about his own behavior than requiring any serious response from me. I note only that he is synthesizing two sources when he connects statistics about student numbers to the claim that "a rise required uniforms". While I wouldn't see these as nitpicks, I agree with Tayi that these weren't major on Feb 15th. But then, I was reverted on each one of them with no basis at all. Apart from the one on CFI/SDPI, I had no idea that any of my edits touched the filer's contributions until I was reverted. My vocalness on talk (though do note, filer himself had 40+ posts in the 4 days before my involvement) stems both from the stonewalling and from a previous discussion (possibly the roots of this filing) where the filer's disdain for Wikipedia sourcing policy and his attitude of making up his own rules was made evident to me(diff) The objection to NYT in this instance on flimsy basis also shows how he regards sources not aligned with his POV and the talk shows the lengths to which he will stonewall minor corrections. If I were to take an opportunity to present diffs (some samples) of filer's own (as well as WP:OWN) behavior in this instance, should I file a new report or can it be done here? Hemantha (talk) 09:35, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Statement by Venkat TL[edit]TLDR : Misuse of 'Arbitration Request' by OP to snipe an opponent of content dispute, instead of trying Dispute resolution. I have been involved in multiple debates/discussions/disputes etc with Hemantha on article talk pages and Wikiproject pages. I have always found Hemantha to be a productive contributor who provides constructive feedback and engages in discussion in good faith with an aim to steer the discussion towards consensus. The article being discussed in this dispute is a very controversial article that is still progressing as more facts are coming out as days progress. It is understandable that the participants will have objections and disputes. The discussions on its talk page are a clear indication of the controversial nature of the page. On this article, Kautilya3 has not been acting as a saint either. Kautilya3 has already used Admin boards inappropriately in an attempt to snipe his opponents and get rid of them as a way out of content dispute. Few days back he had filed an inappropriate and made up Edit war report against me combining diffs of Copyvio reverts and already resolved disputes in trying to misrepresent the situation and painted a grim picture. Unfortunately for him the admins did not buy his claims and the report was closed as No action. This Arbitration Request also appears to me as a second exercise with a similar goal to snipe a content dispute opponent. Instead of going for Dispute Resolution to resolve content disputes, Kautilya3 runs to admin boards and file complaints like this. Perhaps it has worked for him in past. I suggest the admins to also evaluate the behavior of Kautilya3 on this article before making any conclusion on his reports. Venkat TL (talk) 15:56, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
Statement by Tayi Arajakate[edit]I've headache by now and my interest in their dispute is mostly gone. Long story short, it started with a dispute over using an NYT article where Kautilya won't budge on using it which was followed by Hemantha essentially trying to nitpick some of Kautilya's other edits over which neither of them wants to budge. But yeah, this should just be kicked back to the article's talk pages considering there isn't any serious conduct issue from either of them. Tayi Arajakate Talk 19:10, 18 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by CapnJackSp[edit]I’ll split my remarks into two separate sections, one for my opinions and one for some issues raised by editors. Personally, I would by and large agree with Kautilya3 here. Hemantha has been arguing over minute differences in terminology, with suggested rewordings being rejected outright. To me, often it seems the case of “my way or the highway”. Rewordings of the source are tagged as OR, and if written in a manner similar to the source it’s CLOP. Leaves little space for editing, especially in an ongoing matter. This pattern was experienced before as well, during the creation of the Tek Fog page, where Hemantha raised irrelevant issues and ground to a halt any attempts to make constructive edits, demanding a consensus on every edit and then stalling DR on the talk page with WP:BLUDGEONING [a]. Till the intervention of editor Kautilya3, the article maintained a version grossly violating NPOV, with OR and SYNTH encompassing large parts of the material. As for the remarks made by Venkat TL, I find them rather distasteful. Instead of the issues at hand, Venkat has somehow dismissed them on account of his personal opinions. His statements here appear extremely misleading - The edit warring notice against him was closed on a technical point, since he had stopped edit warring post filing of the report. Edit warring is clearly visible from the diffs provided. Venkat falsely accuses the OP of filing illegitimate reports. Venkat’s own report on ANI against me as well as his repeated misleading statements can be accessed here[b] TLDR- Edits made are not generally aligned with the good faith expected of editors. Sanctions left to the discretion of the admins.Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 06:13, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Statement by Aquillion[edit]Unless I'm missing something, this just looks like a standard content dispute; AE isn't the venue to determine whether something is WP:OR / WP:SYNTH or not unless the situation is so clear-cut that one side is plainly WP:STONEWALLING, lacks WP:COMPETENCE, or is otherwise violating conduct policies. That doesn't seem to be the case here. In particular "instigators" is very WP:EXCEPTIONAL language (you're blaming the entire incident on those groups) which requires high-quality sources that unambiguously say the same thing. I'm not saying they're definitely correct, just that at a glance it's obviously not something so clear-cut as to be a conduct issue. Hash it out on talk, and if you're at loggerheads then have an RFC to call in additional opinions. --Aquillion (talk) 19:32, 20 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Iskandar323[edit]I also couldn't help but notice that this appears to be an almost pure content dispute with no evidence of anything AE-worthy. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:50, 22 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Hemantha[edit]
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Nobita456
[edit]| The signal to noise ratio in this report is ridiculous, but there is enough evidence to show that Nobita456 is being disruptive, perhaps accidentally at at times but intentionally as well. I would remind Ekdalian that this isn't SPI. Under the authority of WP:ARBIPA, I'm going to impose a topic ban on Nobita456 for all things caste related, broadly construed, (ALL edits relating to castes and ethnic/social groups across all namespaces) for a period of 90 days. This is getting close to General Sanctions territory WP:CASTE, but is done under Arb authority instead, ie: WP:ARBIPA. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:30, 27 February 2022 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Nobita456[edit]
Nobita456 is a suspected sock of Bengaliwikipro & their sockfarm, meant for POV pushing related to Baidya/Vaidya. CU has used the term 'Possilikely'; please check here. Admins are literally frustrated; please check here as well as here and even suggested topic ban here. Suggestion by senior editor e.g. this. IMO, Nobita456, whether a sock or not, is not here to build an encyclopedia; rather active only in order to push caste related personal agenda.
Discussion concerning Nobita456[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Nobita456[edit]
Statement by LukeEmily[edit]Based on the pattern I have seen, I am in agreement with TrangaBellam when he says Nobita456 Statement by Ekdalian[edit]I have said "Nobita456 is a suspected sock of Bengaliwikipro & their sockfarm, meant for POV pushing related to Baidya/Vaidya. CU has used the term 'Possilikely'." Dennis Brown, I have never claimed that the CU linked Nobita456 with a sockmaster. How do you say, "I find your representation of that SPI report to be very misleading and a real problem. That is the kind of misrepresentation that can backfire on you at WP:AE, and can even get YOU sanctioned." Did I misrepresent what CU said? They used the term 'Possilikely', that's the reason I used the term 'suspected sock'. Thanks & Regards. Ekdalian (talk) 08:18, 23 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by TrangaBellam[edit]Please keep this open for a couple of days. I have a case to make against Nobita456. TrangaBellam (talk) 11:56, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Statement by Vanamonde[edit]I do not consider myself INVOLVED here, but I'm posting in this section as I'm contributing evidence, and I don't have the time to evaluate all of Nobita's conduct. I have had two exchanges with Nobita about their use of sources; 1, 2. In both instances, they were not being sufficiently careful to avoid original research, and more importantly, did not at any point acknowledge that they had overstepped. I would not impose a sanction for those instances alone, but some editors participating here may wish to read those conversations. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:32, 25 February 2022 (UTC) Statement by Ekdalian (additional behavioral evidence)[edit]RegentsPark, Bishonen, I am posting here once again considering RegentsPark's remarks on behavioural evidence, and keeping this open for further comments. I would like to highlight some conclusive (IMO) behavioral pattern since as per CU as well, "Behavioural evidence needs evaluation -- RoySmith (talk) 15:07, 27 January 2022 (UTC)". Admins may not have the time to devote in order to dig deeper into behavioral evidence. I am thankful that RegentsPark pointed out the same & mentioned about the cursory look by the admin concerned, not just looking at the last statement by CU & drawing conclusions! Thanks Bishonen for your continuous support! Coming to the behavioral evidence: Bengaliwikipro and their socks showed unusual interest on Baidya, and another article Bengali Kayastha since they had inter caste rivalry during medieval times (regarding who ranks higher after Brahmins in Bengal); agenda is to promote Baidya (puffery) & demote Kayasthas (caste war in 2022)!
Also, namimg convention as pointed out by TrangaBellam during the recent CU discussions, almost all the socks have similar naming convention, please check TB:s comments, "Another interesting similarity lies in the user names: 6 alphabets concatenated to 3 numbers. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:23, 2 February 2022 (UTC)". I guess it's too lengthy (since behavioral pattern requires details); can cite more, but I believe this is enough! Admins, you may remove/archive my comments after going through the same. Thanks & Regards. Ekdalian (talk) 08:39, 26 February 2022 (UTC) Result concerning Nobita456[edit]
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